Anybody into working out? (Muse idea)

[squeegee]

A couple of years ago I discovered (by accident) a way to cut the last bit of body fat that I had on me. I was already pretty fit-looking but when I changed my diet for an unrelated reason, I spontaneously gained a 6-pack, and veins popping out on my biceps (which I still have now, BTW, with no working out).

The strategy would be to teach my method in an ebook and/or instructional CD, and/or instructional video (my theory is that multiple types of media means higher perceived value). And sell it for $50-100, and justify the cost by comparing it to how much time and money somebody might spend on endless cardio and/or supplements that may work temporarily or not at all.

My targets are

1 - guys who are on a weight training/fitness program and are having problems trimming that last bit of body fat that is preventing them from having the level of muscular definition that they want

2 - guys who don't work out but would like to lose some body fat and help show off the muscles they have now (in other words, to make it look like you work out even if you don't)

Ok so I'm trying to gauge the appeal to my targets. How do you react? assuming I am asking you to buy this, PERSONALLY, YOURSELF.

(I add that emphasis because if you ask people to evaluate how it would appeal to someone else they will give a different answer than if you ask them whether they would themselves buy it)

oh I suppose my advice would work for ladies too, but I dunno anything about them, they are from another planet, so I'm going to focus on selling to guys.

also, did I miss anybody in my target market, who would be starved for this information?

Thank you in advance!
-squeeg

PS I just got this idea now and poured out a sales letter and content outline onto a few pieces of paper. Keep a pen and paper handy, everyone!

[kamakiri]

You have kind of a broad target: guys who work out and guys who don't. That covers about 50% of the population.

I work out 6 days a week and have yet to see the 6 pack I had in high school. I did take 3 weeks off over Christmas and that gained me 10 pounds straight to the gut though.

My old routing was 3 times a week, doing 'super sets' and calisthenics, and that built muscle, but didn't really get rid of the gut.

My background aside, I rarely buy any of those programs. Men's Health has a pull out poster that has some great work outs, and that is about all I use. My diet is based on a GNC pamphlet and the internet. There is a lot of free stuff out there.

Can you compete with that?

[Sven]

Find a few women to test it and the target audience doubles!

I think that there may be a good interest in this, it is quite a clear problem wit a solution that sounds believable

[final_id]

What exactly are you asking for? People who will try your program for free with no strings attached and then, if we like it, we write you a one paragraph testimonial? I'm in.

Or, people who will pay for your program without seeing any evidence that it works, without a money-back guarantee, and the program isn't even formulated yet, and if we like it, we'll give you website advice and make sure that your testimonials page is packed with amazing juice? I'm out.

[FrozenCanuck]

Squeegee - as a guy who is 33, works out 4-5 days per week, and is very fit, I am interested in knowing WHAT you did to reduce that last bit of body fat. So yes, your market is interested. Willing to pay? Not sure. You need to convince people your stuff is worth paying for.

I would recommend you go and sign up to, and watch the videos from Frank Kern at masscontrolsite.net -- a lot of free and useful stuff, although he's trying to get you to take his program. You don't have to take it, just soak up the free stuff for now. You may be able t do well if you follow his methods. FYI, I got put onto Frank's stuff from Ed Dale of the 30 Day Challenge. He sent around an email on it so I checked it out. I like. He basically shows you how to sell without selling, how to be an ordinary guy that people have a relationship with. How to get your mailing list to like you, how to GET a mailing list, etc.

Your multimedia (video / audio vs. EBook) is BANG on.

[webgal]

It all comes down to positioning and marketing. Those are the diet and exercise products that make it. You'd have to really push through the immense competition. There's a guy who posted you tube videos for ten weeks that advertises his program.

But positioning it as "the program that gets rid of that last bit of fat" and targeting those people in the weight room who are frustrated that it won't come off would be a possibility. You just have to zero in on who that market is. A lot of the guys in the weight room where I go get the biceps but not the 6pack. But they do want it.

Love that Men's Health Magazine. For the articles, of course. I already have the 6-pack and so do my teenage boys. That's just genetics in my case. No secret there.

[squeegee]

What exactly are you asking for? People who will try your program for free with no strings attached and then, if we like it, we write you a one paragraph testimonial? I'm in.

great idea! how can we do this....do you want me to email you (or skype or msn or something)?

anybody else want to try it? this takes effort, obviously, and a bit of expense in buying some food products that you may not have already ($25 maximum).

FrozenCanuck thanks for the tip on masscontrol, I signed up for his list.

[Christoph]

I’m going to be brutally honest, but I don’t think you’d be able to sell a product that broad for that much money. I can go on the internet and find myriad articles that give them same thing for free. With weight loss, it is a crapshoot at times. Your product will have to be incredibly superior to what is already available if you want to even stand out. As well, simply because one’s diet is modified does not make a person “spontaneously gain 6 pack abs.”

I cannot deny, however, that your muscles will be more defined, your veins will pop, and you will have the illusion that you are in shape, but you will be 'skiny-fat.' Hell, I can modify my diet to 75% fat, 20% protein, 5% carbs and drop 5-10lbs of pure fat in a little under 2 weeks. It’s not hard. I hate to be so brutal, but I’d honestly reevaluate who your intended market is and, how you will be superior to the free products already available.

Personally, I don’t think I’d want to take the easy way out of looking like I was in shape anyways. I am a big guy and I work my ass off to drop fat and in turn get bigger. It’s give and take. Sorry if I came off rude :cool:

[squeegee]

Cristoph:
No offense taken, I appreciate your candor.

when you say you work your ass off, are you talking about aerobic exercise, or weight training, or...?

you have made me realize that I should be clear about excluding some people. I am only looking for guys who are already pretty slim, I don't have any experience dealing with overweight issues.

also, indeed I need to do some trials with other people to see when/if/how my approach really works, since so far I have only seen it happen with 1 person (me).

in fact I today I have been thinking I should price it more along the lines of $19.95...hmm... [thinking]

[webgal]

I think if you are marketing to the already in shape, there might be something there. You do need to see if it works, however.

[James Grey]

Just to let you know deceptive weight-loss advertisements or claims are regulated by the Federal Trade Commission. Also the FTC has never lost a single enforcement action that they have brought against a weight loss advertiser, ever. So pass your sales copy by a lawyer that specializes in FTC cases before you put it online

But after you do that:

Narrow your market to the smallest niche that you can based off your background (Like if you are Dutch American target other Dutch Americans that cant loose weight or get buff), or on your hobbies (if you play video games then target gamers that are getting fat playing halo), or your profession (if you are an account, market to other accountants that sit behind desks too much).

And then:

Add a benefit, like if you are Dutch American (say how after you got buff the ladies :p came running to you), or for your hobby (My halo score was up 6000 points after getting in shape and I won a tournament), or profession (because I felt great and strong my sales shot up 40%)

Your product has to have one of all of the following benefits to sell:

Health, Wealth and Relationships


~James Grey

[kamakiri]

If you are looking for free trials, I am up for that as well. Send me a PM or an email, both are on my profile.

I spend a lot of time researching exercise on the net when I have questions, and have found that 99.9% of the information I need is out there. I also found that there are a lot of guys trying to sell snake oil.

One site I use for exercise ideas (I change my work out every four weeks) is http://www.iwantsixpackabs.com/ They are selling things as well, but have a ton of good information for free if you dig for it, and there are 16 weeks of work out plans on youtube from them.

[squeegee]

Just to let you know deceptive weight-loss advertisements or claims are regulated by the Federal Trade Commission. Also the FTC has never lost a single enforcement action that they have brought against a weight loss advertiser, ever. So pass your sales copy by a lawyer that specializes in FTC cases before you put it online
~James Grey

I'll keep that thing about the FTC in mind... When you say enforcement action, are you talking huge penalties, or merely being forced to give a disgruntled customer his money back?

your advice about hitting the niches makes sense too. I will test the 'lazy guys who don't work out' angle since that was my situation.

so who wants to participate in a case study? lol

[AntonTheKhan]

I'll keep that thing about the FTC in mind... When you say enforcement action, are you talking huge penalties, or merely being forced to give a disgruntled customer his money back?

your advice about hitting the niches makes sense too. I will test the 'lazy guys who don't work out' angle since that was my situation.

so who wants to participate in a case study? lol

Hey, per Tim's suggestion you should test it out. I think that might be a great thing to market to bodybuilders. You gotta realize a lot of guys are into pumping iron and a lot of them get real fit, except for that last bit of fat around the abs, and legs, etc. Personally, that will be the market that I'd choose.
The weight-loss market is obviously huge, but you gotta understand that most people are looking to lose double digits usually, while your program probably means no more than 10-15 lbs.
In any case, if your product takes off, you can always pump some money in it to take it more mainstream.
Almost any diet, or exercise regimen comes either from bodybuilding experiments or from professional athlete training. So i think its a good place to start.

[shanerbock]

I disagree with it being overpriced...

Well, actually, I agree with it being overpriced if you do it as you have described, with manuals, CDs, etc...

But overall, here is how you make it worth the money... Don't do what everyone else is doing. Don't just write an ebook.

Create videos, audios, "real" books, scorecards, workout journals, etc, etc... and maybe an ebook. 98% of that market is not even thinking about video or audio... and that stuff really works right now on the web. Mostly because you can differentiate yourself, but also because the user will attribute more credibility and value to a product of that time. Moreover, you become a real person... and being a real person sells.

Here are some other ideas... and some might not work since I don't know your product...

* Offer music sets to go with it, for all types of music tastes (metal, alt, pop, dance, etc... )... just put together some motivating list of music that is correctly timed for the workout (warm up, hard work, cool down, stretching, etc)... and sign up as an affiliate on itunes (http://www.apple.com/itunes/affiliates/)

* Offer weekly teleseminars discussing techniques, diet, etc... and also share results of people in your program, and answer questions.

* Offer the product in CD, and on Paper also... and have it shipped to them. In fact, you can self publish at http://www.lulu.com/ and have a "real book".... again, showing real value... not just some simple, cheap, crappy ebook like everyone else has.

* Offer coaching by email or forum with the purchase of the product

* Create a members only site with a forum, for people who purchase the book.

*... etc, etc... If I knew your product, I'd probably have a few more ideas for monetizing and differentiating yourself... I have a nack for that and have helped many of my coaching clients by providing valuable advice on this.

The point is... BE DIFFERENT!

Best of luck!

Shane

[squeegee]

Last call for volunteers to find out if my method will work for other people.

It will probably take around a month to start seeing results, if they are forthcoming, and it will cost probably maximum $10 a week in food, which you may be purchasing already, maybe not.

To join this study, send me your email address. I promise not to email you any sales letters, chain letters, or spam.

[Christoph]

...$10 for food? For a week? Is that possible?

I spent like $25 on eggs, turkey, and greens and that was the absolute minimum threshold for creativity and nutrition. Tell me where you shop!!

[squeegee]

...$10 for food? For a week? Is that possible?

I spent like $25 on eggs, turkey, and greens and that was the absolute minimum threshold for creativity and nutrition. Tell me where you shop!!

LOL my bad. I should have been more clear. I meant $10 EXTRA on top of what you are already getting, if you aren't already getting the items I'm going to recommend.

Now that I think about it, I suppose there may be other dietary changes necessary which would necessitate greater additional expense. So scratch what i said about $10... :D

[webgal]

James' legal advice is key to keeping you out of trouble. I would take it.

The target that pops into my mind is policemen. They are always working out. And since their schedules are 24-hour coverage, they tend to hit the gym when it's less crowded. Those guys are into the abs and nutrition and the whole package.

I think if you niche this down the right way, my gut tells me there is something there. There are a ton of people who work out, they've lost weight and want that reward of more definition. I hear it all the time. You have to zero in on the "gym faithful".

[squeegee]

webgal:
thanks for the tips, I will ask around with my friends who work out a lot, and cops.

re: legal issues

Does anybody see an easy way around the legal question? Maybe if I pitch it as a "fitness" or a "beauty" product? Are those areas highly regulated? I'm in canada, does FTC come up here and harass entrepreneurs?

I would be happy if the solution was to advertise 'conservatively,' i.e. no hype, and maybe even under-promise just to be safe.

I'd like to choose a muse with the lowest possible "hassle" factor...

Lawsuits = total buzzkill

[kamakiri]

Squeege - I have seen your program now, and really can't see any possibility of a law suit at all. From what you are doing, you have nothing to worry about. You need to focus your marketing materials on your own experience, and always have a disclaimer somewhere, stating something along the lines of this:

The information provided is designed only to help you make informed decisions about fitness/health. It is not intended as any kind of substitute for the advice or treatment that may have been prescribed by your physician. Before adhering to any of the information or recommendations, you should consult with your doctor.

Understand that you are solely responsible for the way this information is perceived and utilized, and do so at your own risk. In no way Squeege will be responsible for any kind of death, severe bodily injury, bleeding from the eyes and ears, severe cases of herpes, injuries, health problems, or uncontrollable urges to flash the Laker Cheergirls that might occur due to the use of this website, program, or the advice contained in it.

(I jazzed up a disclaimer I found in a google search for ya. Can you tell which parts I added?)

[StickRM]

Squeegee, I am in your target audience and would be interested in trying out your idea in exchange for a testimonial.

[TimW]

Cristoph:
I am only looking for guys who are already pretty slim, I don't have any experience dealing with overweight issues.


I used to be thin, does that help? :)

Otherwise I'd be willing to give it a try....BTW, are you sure it's not something that could help us less-than-svelte folks get a kick-start?

[webgal]

Hey, you have a secondary target audience here squegee.

[kamakiri]

Done correctly Squeege's idea is easily applicable to any category, be they kilogrammically challenged or not.

[squeegee]

"Hey, you have a secondary target audience here"
"Done correctly Squeege's idea is easily applicable to any category"

these are good points. mmkay, note to self, target both areas with tailored versions of the same product.

TimW
The method may help the less-than-skinny. If you like you can get in on the trial. Send me a PM with your email addy. You too StickRM. :)

[rab911turbo]

Hey Squeegee,

How's the muse going? I'm really into working out but like Kamakiri said, I also don't buy information on working out online. As well as all the free info on the net, the trainers at my gym will set me up a new personalised program for free whenever I ask. I'm currently on one to support my snowboarding.

I DO however buy a lot of supplements online. I prefer to buy a physical product, I know I can't find those for free somewhere else!

You mention that it's for people who already work out. If they are like me they might already have a tight program in place and not that much extra time to dedicate to your plan. Is it easy to intergrate? I'm on 8% body fat so I'm not looking to lose much fat, but I am always interested in toning up the abs.

If the offer is still there I'd be happy to take part and experiment with your ideas, and write you a testimonial, if I could fit it into my current workout plan.

[jetpacklife]

My advice: Make a website, give away your advice (like tim does), but profit from ad sales and affiliates. Honestly, I don't buy into fads, but, I do read a lot of sites.

[squeegee]

jetpacklife
I am beginning to think along those lines. Thanks everyone for your feedback!