10 hours / 10 million

[jetpacklife]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/business/13digi.html?_r=2&ex=1357880400&en=9a69f05cdc551c11&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

The nytimes covers the plenty of fish guy. While they really dis the design of the site, they do give you an idea how much you can make with a good idea and a few hours a week.

I put in a few more hours these days, and I don't quite make as much, but I see a lot of similarities with this guy. I'm certainly no steve jobs with my site design.

[Krishna]

thanks for sharing the article. it shows that even without the book there is something that works. and it started out correctly...as a way to learn something. just the way facebook started. and just as geeky....any prioblems you notice and i dont care about are "trivial". but just like Mr. facebook he needs to listen to constructive critisim. but thats classical geek.

[final_id]

Good article. Two or three quick lessons:

1. Outsource and automate. Duh.

2. Stay focused on what matters to you. You aren't making a website that's supposed to please other people (except, in so far as, being pleasing to them would generate profit / goodwill / etc.; AND THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY THE CASE with Plenty-of-Fish).

3. Like E-Bay, he uses "the community" to generate the actual product which the community then buys. Brilliant. I think it can only be done on computers, but I'm trying to work out something similar for "real life."

4. By some definitions, it's very cynical. Calling bad programming "trivial" (fer-instance) requires a world-view that is very very mercenary. Treating your customers as though THEY should work hard for YOU is a weird twist that wouldn't work face to face very often, so you have to "stomach" it in a new and self-directed kind of way. It's all about opting out of traditional politeness for a new kind of politeness.

5. Personally, I probably wouldn't patronize such a business. I'd feel like I was getting taken advantage of. "They haven't even bothered with decent programming! Why should I HELP them to take MORE of my resources?!" But many people seem willing to get involved in these "community projects" to the benefit of the initiator(s). Viz. Craig's List, E-Bay, even Amazon (to some extent), and definitely the 4HWW forums. :)

[Sven]

This guy says that the photos being stretched is to trivial to solve. It is bold to say this as it may hint of arrogance towards the user. But I had a quick look at the site and to me the odd pictures seem more inviting to click which should result in more visits for the users... Don't fix it if it works!!!

Sven

[AshokanKid]

~


I am willing to bet that the rough sparseness of the site certainly adds to the appeal., at least to some users. Many people may shy away from the slick commercial type of presence., BUT.,

In addition to the lessons listed above regarding this "success"., it also points out the likelihood that there is a LOT more room for similar sites and even more., got an idea.,? Go for it.,

Even IF you do not necessarily have the tech savvy or backing cash (immediately) to do a fully pro job., this can always be added later (Facebook) and developed as it grows.,

Hmm., this gives ME an idea., gotta go., work to do ., :cool:

AK

~

[Vagabond]

i can't even begin to believe that site makes $10MM net??

its horrible and doesnt even look real. so weird.

but that idea of self-policing is actually a great idea, people love that feeling of empowerment and belonging and having a say in a community, even if that community exists on some webpages.

there are literally prob hundreds of multi-million dollar ideas using this concept... although i didnt see any ads!

[Vagabond]

oh, i do see the ads now...

[Big Rob]

Can someone post the article, the link is requesting login.

[jetpacklife]

Does this one work for you?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/business/13digi.html?ex=1357966800&en=bfde0f1a6ec77632&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

The work that users do, besides generating their one profile, is a lot like product reviews on other sites. It's pretty minimal how much each user has to do, but, with sufficiently large userbase, it works well.

Online personal sites is a pretty big business. I used to work at one in NYC. However, automating and outsourcing (with user support) was not done enough at our site (which eventually closed down). Match.com makes 300 million a year, but spends a lot I guess.

[Thor]

i can't even begin to believe that site makes $10MM net??

its horrible and doesnt even look real. so weird.

but that idea of self-policing is actually a great idea, people love that feeling of empowerment and belonging and having a say in a community, even if that community exists on some webpages.

there are literally prob hundreds of multi-million dollar ideas using this concept... although i didnt see any ads!

ditto same thoughts...
time to get on the bat bike

[kamakiri]

With over 2 million hits a month(easily verifiable with siteanalytics.com), they are doing something correctly. Turning each unique person into $5 seems a bit of a stretch, but with marketing catered to a person's interests, sex, and age, I am sure that they can come up with some very accurate ad decisions. People's buying patterns are studied ad nauseum, so all of that is automated as well.

My take is probably not $10mil a month, but well over $1mil. Something that we should all be hoping to get that lucky to do.

[jetpacklife]

Per year, not per month. Still, that's a lot of pocket change.

siteanalytics.com can way underestimate traffic. They underestimate mine by a factor of 4.

They say the site gets 650 M page views, which can easily net $650k/month, which is $7.8 M / year. He claims 10M / year, so, really, not far off. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a lot more now, his traffic has been up steadily.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The promise of the first internet boom was that the internet could drastically reduce costs and make things cheaper or even free. This is finally a reality now, with faster connections, computers and lower costs. If you're looking for ideas, just think of something popular (information, software or service) that people are paying money for now, and figure out a way to offer it for free. Or, find a service that is free right now, and make it better.

[kamakiri]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The promise of the first internet boom was that the internet could drastically reduce costs and make things cheaper or even free.... just think of something popular (information, software or service) that people are paying money for now, and figure out a way to offer it for free. Or, find a service that is free right now, and make it better.

Not so sure about just that. Free stuff is all over the net. Making free stuff is easy, figuring out how to disseminate that free content and make money off it is the hard part. There are thousands of great blogs, forums, and sites out there that are great resources, but because of the sheer volume on the metaverse, remain in relative obscurity.

A great example of this can be found in 'The Long Tail' by Wired Magazine's Chris Anderson. He talks about a 2005 NY Times interview where the president of a blog company was wearing a t-shirt with the goatse printed on it.

Now, to those who knew about it, it was pretty shocking to see it so blatantly flaunted around. If you are curious as to what it is, google it, but I must warn you it is not safe for work at all, and most people would call it disgusting.

Back to the point though, the real trick is to monitarize this free content, so you can continue to support the free stuff, while making enough money to keep it free.

[jetpacklife]

Thanks to google and other advertising services, monetizing your traffic is not a problem. You don't have to spend time on monetizing if you can make up for it in volume. You could have a site that has 1 page that gets 1 million hits / day, or you can have a site with 1 million pages that each get 1 hit a day. Both are surprisingly easy if you go in with the right mindset and both will earn you a great living.

Obviously, blogs that rehash the same information are not unique and not great traffic drivers. True unique content, apps and other services are where it's at and driving massive amounts of traffic (through seo, viral and word of mouth) is how you profit.

[TimW]

talks about a 2005 NY Times interview where the president of a blog company was wearing a t-shirt with the goatse printed on it.

I'm not sure what that has to do with this thread, but that's funny!!

(yes, I am very twisted that way....)

[jetpacklife]

Just to reply a little more directly to the long tail reference. In the article:

"we think that if something isn't a hit, it won't make money and so won't return the cost of its production. We assume, in other words, that only hits deserve to exist" ... "the "misses" usually make money, too. And because there are so many more of them, that money can add up quickly to a huge new market."

As you said, it's easy to make free content. Keeping down the production and distribution costs (now very easy and cheap) can add up to a big hit.

I was just looking at some of the numbers for one of my sites that takes advantage of the long tail. Everyday, about 30k people come into the site from google. Do I have a very popular keyword at google that does this? No. I have 15k not so popular keywords. Each keyword/phrase gets an average of 2 hits a day.

Sure, it's taken a long investment of time (waiting, not working) to make this site a hit.

[kamakiri]

I'm not sure what that has to do with this thread, but that's funny!!

(yes, I am very twisted that way....)

I also think it was funny as hell. (and you have at one time or another at least googled the term I see).

My point was that there is a guy being interviewed by the NY Times, and he got by with a T-shirt referencing a fairly well known, very x-rated, and disgusting web site. I am sure he was laughing for a week. The NY Times could have easily taken that out of the interview picture, yet they didn't know about it. In that circle, goatse was obscure.

I am sure at one point while the original site was still up, they made a ton of money off links, (just as I am sure 2g1cup is doing). Those guys put up something gross, and then made a ton off providing free content.

Those are a few of the ways to do it. It might not be the way to sell educational software, but it works for them. The web is full of great content that is unknown.

[TimW]

I knew about Goatse back before it was well-known. I am fortunate, however, to say that I never saw 2G1C. I saw the first few seconds of it, and figured it was going nowhere good. From what I've heard, it didn't.

Now that you've explained it, I see how it fits (so to speak) within the context of this discussion.

Yeah, I am Übertwisted