Internet Marketing, Clients, Web Design

[NickG]

Hey Everyone,

I just started selling my Internet Marketing services and I am working on my first two clients. I sell myself pretty well as someone who can promote websites, generate traffic, maintain/grow email lists, etc. My two clients seem pretty happy about this, but I'm having trouble selling them on wordpress templates.

They want the website to look a specific way and unfortunately I can't make that happen in WordPress. They haven't been 'thrilled' with any of the templates I showed them and I feel this is going to be an issue until I am making enough money to hire a VA that can do custom web designing.

Does anyone have any recommendations on overcoming this minor hurdle? What could I do to help my clients realize that until I can hire a web designer I have to use the templates I have access to?

I don't tell them that I will be outsourcing it. When I talk to them about this I say something along the lines of:

"I have focused my study on web promoting. Within the next few months my business will have grown to the point where I can partner up with a professional web designer to offer completely customized websites. Until then I can use these professionally designed website templates."

I try to make it sound as positive as possible but I can tell this is something that is holding me back a lot.

Does anyone have any recommendations on what I can do until I can afford to start outsourcing web designing?

Thanks,
Nick

[seth121]

Thats a tough spot you are in.

First thing is what is their business

Second is what theme are you using at the moment to show them

Third how much are your clients paying. I ask this because I get a lot of clients who want a marketed site, SEO, and custom web development for $500.

I have to explain to them that with $500 a custom design is hard to produce simply because of time and it will be hard to find a good outsourcer on my end who will develop a custom quality site with all the bells and whistles for anything less than $500

If they are wanting a custom design then I would suggest you explain to them that because the amount of time that goes into developing a site and then testing it to make sure everything works properly takes more time and because of this you would actually be losing money for anything less than "x" dollars.

What you could do is have a separate price for web development and then a seperate price for marketing the site.

Also are they providing you with any earnest money in the beginning to start the project. That is very important. Because some clients will try to get out of deals by always finding a small fault in the site and keep post poning your pay. With the earnest money you are at least able to recoup some funds.

Oh and a little tip is register the hosting account under you name and then once they pay you for the completed contract them hand them over the hosting account with the website on it. This way they don't get a website without paying for you hard work.

But let me know which themes you are using and I can point you in the right direction.

=)

[NickG]

The two small-business owners I am working with have the following markets.

1. Radiant Heat Shield Installation (drop the Installation for the main keyword). This is a foil-type sheet that is installed in the attic of a house. It does a great job of both keeping hot and cold air inside while also keeping hot and cold air outside. (Keeps cool air in and hot air out during the summer, visa versa for winter)

2. A triple-deal business man who has 10+ years experience in each of these: Property Management, Contracting Remodeling, Real Estate

I have given them several example themes. Here are some of the ones I sent via email for them to look at. I included an explanation about how the HostGator ads will not be on their website, and that it will be filled with content about their business instead of the content provided.

Cool Blue WP Theme (http://demo2.theme4wordpress.com/?wptheme=coolblue)

Dark Grey WP Theme (http://demo4.theme4wordpress.com/?wptheme=greydream-10)

Red Stripe WP Theme (http://demo7.theme4wordpress.com/?wptheme=stipe)

Green SkyScraper WP Theme (http://demo7.theme4wordpress.com/?wptheme=skyscraper)

Orange and Green WP Theme (http://demo5.theme4wordpress.com/?wptheme=maria)

I used the same link anchor text in the email.

I am just starting out and these are my first two clients. I wasn't focused on charging them a lot (was this a bad idea?). So I quoted them $200 - $400 for setting up and installing the site (including domain and hosting set up). Everything will be under my name and I will basically be managing their entire online web presence including site maintenance, promoting (via SEO-ing the site, PPC advertising, etc.), and building/managing their email list (using Aweber). Because of this, I was going to charge them between $150 - $250 per month after the website was set up.

I want to promote myself as someone who will manage a small-business web presence entirely. I maintain the site, run online promotions, etc.

I didn't quote them a large initial fee because I wanted to use these two clients (one of which is a close friend) as examples for when I go seek more clients in my area. At the moment I have no websites to show that portray what I can do.

They are not providing me with money upfront. I was not going to put the site online until I was paid, though, and they know this.

Thanks for taking the time to help me out!

Cheers,
Nick

[Sven]

I ran in to the same thing in building drupal sites for customers.
I think there are two issues here:

Difficulty in communicating what the customer can expect
Looks of the website need to reflect personal identity (Not true in the way the customer feels it)

The customer has an idea of wht a site should look like. A lot of that idea comes from personal taste which is usually horrible, not to the point and not founded in any sense of what a website is about. And then to get a cms themed to fit that taste would cost more than double what the site would be in a standard theme.

One of my clients spent 600,-- for a website that could do everything he needed. But because it did not "LOOK" the way he wanted it to he threw it out to have a second one custom made for 2500.... That was within 3 months.

Be honest in what you think they need and do not offer anything else.

[seth121]

You are exactly right Sven.

It's frustrating when you are hired to do a job and then they try telling you how to do your job lol.
But I completely understand about how customers don't understand a custom coded website and a theme based website especially the time it takes. But the biggest problem I think is that they don't understand cost. It seems like many think you copy and paste and "whoala" instant website. They would pay a carpenter to install cabinets before they pay a web developer or seo guy to increase revenue in their business.

It blows my mind.

Oh and why is $500 the only budget that everyone seems to have lol. Is it me or do you ever run into this. Want a website like e-bay for $500 and 3 months tech support.

But Drupal is another beast and require more dev experience, but it's a great platform. But most clients can't afford a custom coded drupal site =(

[Sven]

Nah, Drupal can do a lot out of the box. Or should I say boxes? I would not call it dev work.
I've just upgraded my old website to a drupal site that I had running as a sub site for my self steering systems and all custom work I did was adapting the color scheme which required puzzling in html.

Check it out www. windvaneselfsteering . com

But it is probably not for the faint hearted to get started in drupal. So start with a pointless site or a playfull personal one.

[MattInglot]

Difficulty in communicating what the customer can expect

That hits the nail on the head. Not everyone who needs a website is in your target market! You have picked a certain price range and a certain service level (Drupal + templates). This should be communicated clearly and you should seriously consider whether that solution is appropriate for a client. If they have $10,000 to spend and really want a professional image and certain custom functionality, then charging $500 but not meeting the client's expectation isn't providing the value that they seek, which is why Sven's story of $500 scrapped for $2,500 repeats itself over and over. He's right. What's worst, it puts you in an awful position: lose money on the project, or disappoint the client. But it's preventable.

Here are two very important points for being happy and fulfilled in web development, or anything else.

a) Consider whether you are targeting the market the way you are comfortable with (nothing wrong with selling $500 template sites, but is that what you fell into, or what you wish to do?). Web development ranges from free to millions of dollars. My own company's projects are $3,000 to $80,000 and come with significant consulting in the planning/design phases to create a successful/viable site. Meanwhile Happy Cog (publishers of the awesome A List Apart) state on their website that their projects start at $100,000. There is a also very good market around the $1,200 - $2,000 range as well, where it's basically a CMS and a custom design. You get the idea.

b) Once you understand your own identity and market, then as Sven indicated, set the client expectations correctly, and seriously consider whether the client's needs match with your service. Like I said above, if someone wants a full custom design and has $10,000 to invest in their web strategy, a $500 site is not a bargain because it fails to achieve the client goals. We turn away business all the time because the needs don't click with what Tilted Pixel does, and whenever possible we try to refer them to a company that is more appropriate. This courtesy is appreciated, and has more than once then led to referrals from that person of people who are suited and who we have done great business with.

[Sven]

And here is the process in detail:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell

[seth121]

Ahhh Sven I died when I saw this. This is exactly how it seems to go. I bookmarked this for later.

Props

[AlexMoen]

This is simply a matter of practicing your sales. You should have never let them know they may or may not have an option in the future.

You are the expert here- not them. Don't say it in a condescending way, but next time let them know that you know what you're doing and that it's done that way for a reason. You're going to kill yourself trying to please everyone if you offer too many options.

Henry Ford used to say his customers could have any color car they wanted so long as it was black.

[NickG]

Alex, if you ask the clients what they want...they'll ask for a faster horse. Lol I think that's another Henry Ford quote.

Matt, thank you for your insight. I think I need to take a better look at what market I am targeting.

I think I jumped the gun with these first two clients. And as you guys mentioned I think I gave them to much control and to many options.

I've started putting together a form/survey that the clients will fill out. My ideal (but still incomplete) goal is this:

- Clients find my website through various means of advertising. Home Page describes the services offered.
- If interested in the services, they click through to an online form that they fill out. From here I get contact info and ask them questions about what they want their website to be like. Domain name, what the website is about, whether it's personal or business, etc.
- They also have some pictures they can look at that show example templates. They select their favorites and submit the form.

I want this form to take care of everything I need to know from them so that I can get to work right away after I receive the form. After I do everything on my end, I'll email them back with a few pictures of their website with content/videos/media/etc.

However, I can't think of how I take better control over the "minor changes" aspect. I have a feeling most people would email me back saying "could you change this?" or "mind making this little tweak over here?".

I don't want to simply email them and ask what they want me to do. Is there a better approach to this?

[enochbenjamin]

For $500 you should be able to get a custom template to match the look of an existing website.

[jwmares]

You could also look into purchasing some custom made wordpress themes, such as the ones here:

http://www.woothemes.com/pricing/

I have used them before and highly recommend them.

[seth121]

I like woothemes except there code is quite bad. They have a bunch of echo features which you then have to edit and especially at the footer part. It seems to interfere with the widget area if you mess with it on certain themes.

[codymckibb]

Oh and why is $500 the only budget that everyone seems to have lol. Is it me or do you ever run into this. Want a website like e-bay for $500 and 3 months tech support.

That's what got me frustrated with this industry after a while too. It's unfortunately very undervalued right now. But, yeah you gotta step up, be confident, and break it down for them. Explain in normal human language (not nerdspeak) that custom design takes a completely different and valuable set of skills than website *setup*, maintenance and promotions, and then tell them if they want professional design services, to pay you extra to go find a quality designer to partner with and manage the process.

Honestly, if they try to go find a talented designer in the US, going rates for good freelancers are at least $2k, bargain basement, for a whole site.

…But, you don't have to tell them where you find your partners—it is possible to get good designers somewhere like the Philippines and bring them into YOUR business for around $350-500/month full time.

[Dorian05]

Alex, if you ask the clients what they want...they'll ask for a faster horse. Lol I think that's another Henry Ford quote.

Matt, thank you for your insight. I think I need to take a better look at what market I am targeting.

I suggest Joomla Template may suit your existing web. There are also many free templates available. You can better give a try in Google, so that you’ll get the required one.

[paulwbrowning]

I hope you don't mind me being blunt.

your clients are telling you what to do so it is the wrong way round. Also, they are low paying clients so will bleed you dry and make your life a misery.

Get rid of them and get some who will pay five times more but give you five times less heartache.

I would give clients a list of options which you know work and ask them which one they want. I would also filter clients so you know you are working with motivated ones such as paying for an initial consultation.

If you carry on down your current path you are going to be miserable and broke.

All the best

Paul

[10smom]

Have you looked into joomla? It is same idea as wordpress but a little more learning curve. It is open source and free. Just need to buy templates like wordpress. I think your clients will like the choice better.