Virtual Assistants (VA) in 2010

[Sean Conner]

So my wife and I have been doing a lot of reading, emailing and posting about VAs - where they're trending, going rates, new scams, stratification, etc. etc. - it's a bit dense and it takes a while to separate the hype from the scam, from the honest Indian, Filipino, etc. professional just trying to connect with someone willing to pay them.

Here's a few figures to help get you calibrated. The current exchange rate for the US Dollar to the Rupee is about $1 to 36 Rupees.

(Disclaimer: take these prices with a grain of salt... they're from the internet after all.) A new 100cc motorcycle in India costs about 35,000 Rupees- about $750 dollars US (interestingly enough, about the same price as a used one here.) A half liter of milk and a dozen eggs are about 24 Rupees - about 0.60 cents. A 30 day rail pass is about 500 Rupees - about $14 dollars. And finally a nice 2bd/2ba apartment in most places for about 6,500 Rupees per month - about $180 per month.

So if you're living in India making $5/hr and working 40hr/wk you're making about $800/month- or about 29,000 Rupees/month. This individual is living a pretty good lifestyle by most standards- certainly better than I did right out of college.

Then I think it stands to reason that I should be able to find a trustworthy VA team with all the same (or similar) specifications that Tim discusses for about $5/hr.

We shall see...

[Sean Conner]

I'm currently conversing with a gentleman by the name of Avadhesh Mahajan, at an outfit called Yantram BPO (yantrambpo dot com in case you're curious.) Trying to figure out if it's a scam, if the people are any good, etc. etc.

Does anyone have any experience with them, and if so could you elaborate a tad for the community on your experience?

Here's what I know so far about them:

1. They're charging between $3/hr and $7.50/hr, depending on the "package" you buy and skill set.

2. They have both monthly packages (i.e. pay $480 and get 160 hours of work per month) and hourly packages (i.e. pay $200 and get 40 hours... it's unclear if there's a window that you need to use them in however.)

3. The parent domain name is registered to:

Registrant:
Yantram BPO services Pvt. Ltd.
Shambri
Laguna Hills, Wyoming 92653
United States

Domain Name: OUTSOURCING-SERVICES-INDIA.COM
Created on: 22-Mar-07
Expires on: 22-Mar-11
Last Updated on: 14-Jan-09

[Sean Conner]

Hello Avadhesh,

I'm interested in testing a VA team with the necessary skills to do the attached test assignment in approximately 3 hours (i.e. about how long it would take me to do it on my own.) - See attached doc file. If you can't open it for security/compatibility reasons let me know.

1. Could you please explain in greater detail the hourly packages? Is there a window of time that I would need to use the hours in the hourly packages- 3 month, 6 months, etc?

2. After reading the attached doc file and assessing the quality of work required for the assignment, could you send me three (3) examples of similar work.

3. What would be the expected turn around time on an assignment like the attached test assignment? (i.e. 12 hours, 24 hours, several days?)

4. Do you offer a single point of contact for your clients to interact with your VAs (i.e. account managers, etc?)

5. Lastly, do you require payment upfront for services (I assume so,) and if so what guarantee do you offer for satisfaction of work and continued performance. I'm a very reasonable person, but am new to the word of VAs and am very wary of potential scams.

If you need clarification on any of these questions please let me know.

Thank you very much for your time,

Cheers,
Sean

[Sean Conner]

Avadhesh is taking his sweet time getting back to me... I guess he's either really busy or thinks it's more trouble than it's worth, or it's a scam and he's not responding with the requested answers and examples because they can't be produced. Sigh... no one said this would be easy.

Also, Elance has de-listed my proposal due to someone I communicated with (in North America) reporting me - Elance wants their money, and they can't make money off of tests, or so it would seem.

Here's the automated de-listing response:

Dear X,

Thank you for using Elance. We were alerted to your most recent job, “In-Depth Acedemic Research Assignment", and removed it from Elance because:

The minimum payment for any Elance project is $50.

Click here to login and post a new job as necessary.

Sincerely,

Elance

[Feumet]

Avadhesh is taking his sweet time getting back to me... I guess he's either really busy or thinks it's more trouble than it's worth, or it's a scam and he's not responding with the requested answers and examples because they can't be produced. Sigh... no one said this would be easy.

Also, Elance has de-listed my proposal due to someone I communicated with (in North America) reporting me - Elance wants their money, and they can't make money off of tests, or so it would seem.

Here's the automated de-listing response:

Dear X,

Thank you for using Elance. We were alerted to your most recent job, “In-Depth Acedemic Research Assignment", and removed it from Elance because:

The minimum payment for any Elance project is $50.

Click here to login and post a new job as necessary.

Sincerely,

Elance

Elance can be a big pain in the you know what. I have over 2 dozen VA's and it takes a while to find good ones for sure and you kind of get what you pay for. But you can get decent ones under $7.00 for most tasks.
Cheers,
Andrew

[Sean Conner]

Thanks for the words of encouragement (or at least commiseration.) Could you take a moment to clarify some things for me (and others that I'm sure will want to hear this.)

So you're saying that you actually do use elance for your VA tasks, correct? Two dozen independent - freelance - VAs seems like a lot to manage, do you have a lead VA that manages the work flow for you?

Have you tried using other VA firms? I'm finding that the firms I've contacted thus far (i.e. taskseveryday.com and yantrambpo.com) are either not very responsive OR are asking for an $800/mo commitment right out of the gate... that's too big of a commitment for me and a bit too much of an upfront risk for my pocketbook, at least for the time being.

Thanks Andrew,

Sean

[Feumet]

Thanks for the words of encouragement (or at least commiseration.) Could you take a moment to clarify some things for me (and others that I'm sure will want to hear this.)

So you're saying that you actually do use elance for your VA tasks, correct? Two dozen independent - freelance - VAs seems like a lot to manage, do you have a lead VA that manages the work flow for you?

Have you tried using other VA firms? I'm finding that the firms I've contacted thus far (i.e. taskseveryday.com and yantrambpo.com) are either not very responsive OR are asking for an $800/mo commitment right out of the gate... that's too big of a commitment for me and a bit too much of an upfront risk for my pocketbook, at least for the time being.

Thanks Andrew,

Sean

OK, will do my best. I don't use Elance for VA's per say although if I need a specialty, I will go back there once in a while. When I first got going right after 4HWW came out, I had the same issues you did and I ran into other people that had the same issue. A lot of the VA's I found did not like the $50 minimum and the cut they took. It is not a lot to us, but to them it is quite a bit.

So, I spent a lot of time and effort by trial and error and ended up finding a couple of good VA's and then asked them if they new anyone else. I couldn't use them all of the time, but I did not want to let them go, so I let me friends take up the slack and before you know it, 3 years later I ended up with a bunch of them.

The same thing went with Transcriptionists. I hire them out to my friends and clients so I don't lose them. Not meaning to, one of my Muses that I ended up with by default with was a small VA service. All because I ran into the same issues you did and just wanted to some good VA's that I could use. LOL
But once you figure out a system, 1 or 40 VA's, it does not matter. They say necessity is the mother of all invention.

I manage mine out of the US. I learned that lesson as well. And actually still do a lot of it so I can see what is going on. But I have it down to about 30 minutes a day. . The same thing happened when I was looking for programmers and graphic artists, although building Websites / Blogs and Web platforms was my intentional Muse. But I have a number of those people based out of the US now too.

The bottom line is that I ended up with some really good people but it took some time to find them.

So speaking from experience, don't feel bad, it is not your fault. I am not sure why but overall, a lot of the VA services are non-responsive before and after the sale. I hear that a lot from our customers. My suggestion is to just keep them on a short leash but be reasonable.

The key to working with any VA is to be very specific with your task and to give them the exact procedure you want them to follow and layout the format of the outcome that you want. The best way to try this out is to get a family member to test it out first. LOL It is usually good for some laughs and it will help iron things out.

Then also give them a dollar amount or a time amount to spend on that task. Then once that is set, don't be in a hurry. The first time doing anything takes about 2/3rds longer that it normally takes. Then tweak the results until you get what you want. Then after that happens, it will speed up and it is smooth sailing and you are on auto pilot.

And I don't keep up with what everyone else is doing, but $800 seems kind of hi to get rolling for just a regular VA jeeshe. I started off selling our time in $49 chunks which is much more manageable and we are still there. Like I said, I have no idea what everyone else is doing these days. But that would not seem like a good way to run your business.

Not sure how much help this was, but I hope it helped some. I guess you could say I got tired of looking for a better mouse trap and ended up just making my own.

Don't give up, it is doable and you can get your Muse rolling. It is an absolute blast when it gets going. Although, I have to admit to be a workaholic. I am not sure I work all that much less hours, I just get about 10 times as much done as I used to and I don't have to go into an office anymore. YEAAAAA. Plus it is nice to know you can still make money even when you decide not to show up.

Best of luck!

Cheers,
Andrew

[Sean Conner]

Andrew, that does in fact help, thank you. It's nice to have someone to discuss these things with, and don't underestimate the power of a few well timed words of encouragement!

I'm actually kind of shocked (and a little disappointed) at the lack of easily accessible entry level VA firms out there. It seems like a there's hole in the market frankly. Or perhaps the pull in the market is strong enough that demand is simply outstripping supply at the moment (i.e. why skilled professional VA firms are up around $10/hr+ with a minimum commitment)... I mean who wouldn't want to take their $80k salary and pay someone $15k to do 90% of the busywork... unfortunately that's not my situation.

In my situation my wife is actually winning most of the bread - bringing in a very modest $45k at a non-profit summer camp for kids with serious illnesses - outsourcing for her really isn't an option, and definitely not a necessity for me

Luckily we're both very determined to engage in the NR lifestyle and have spent the last two months testing concepts and wrapping our heads around the practices... and yes figuring out where the rubber meets the road, and sometimes doesn't quite meet the road, i.e. VAs

I actually wanted to engage the VA route for my very good friend (who recommended the 4HWW a few months ago) and who is in fact in a situation where he does need a VA. For me it was mainly a test, for him it's looking like necessity. (He doesn't even have time to do the legwork to find a VA! How's that for necessity.)

I'll have a discussion later today with him about what his time is worth to him and see if I can engage a VA at the level they are requesting and Dave is comfortable with - rather than trying to engage a bunch of VAs for testing at very small levels, which no VAs seem interested in.

If you have some specific direction that you'd be willing to share in a private conversation I am all ears - if you're reticent about sharing your hard earned information I understand that too.

Thank you,
Sean

[Feumet]

Andrew, that does in fact help, thank you. It's nice to have someone to discuss these things with, and don't underestimate the power of a few well timed words of encouragement!

I'm actually kind of shocked (and a little disappointed) at the lack of easily accessible entry level VA firms out there. It seems like a there's hole in the market frankly. Or perhaps the pull in the market is strong enough that demand is simply outstripping supply at the moment (i.e. why skilled professional VA firms are up around $10/hr+ with a minimum commitment)... I mean who wouldn't want to take their $80k salary and pay someone $15k to do 90% of the busywork... unfortunately that's not my situation.

In my situation my wife is actually winning most of the bread - bringing in a very modest $45k at a non-profit summer camp for kids with serious illnesses - outsourcing for her really isn't an option, and definitely not a necessity for me

Luckily we're both very determined to engage in the NR lifestyle and have spent the last two months testing concepts and wrapping our heads around the practices... and yes figuring out where the rubber meets the road, and sometimes doesn't quite meet the road, i.e. VAs

I actually wanted to engage the VA route for my very good friend (who recommended the 4HWW a few months ago) and who is in fact in a situation where he does need a VA. For me it was mainly a test, for him it's looking like necessity. (He doesn't even have time to do the legwork to find a VA! How's that for necessity.)

I'll have a discussion later today with him about what his time is worth to him and see if I can engage a VA at the level they are requesting and Dave is comfortable with - rather than trying to engage a bunch of VAs for testing at very small levels, which no VAs seem interested in.

If you have some specific direction that you'd be willing to share in a private conversation I am all ears - if you're reticent about sharing your hard earned information I understand that too.

Thank you,
Sean

Well I am glad I could help. It is not so much that I don't mind sharing at all. I am just not trying to say that my way is the only way to go is all. And yes, prices have gone up quite a bit actually in a lot of areas. But you can still find good deals.

Don't worry too much about figuring everything out right away. Testing is the only way to do things and just take one bite at a time, then before you know it, you are there.

I just wish I had someone that had been through the wringer when I first got started. :)

You can do this, it is possible. Just keep focused. It can be fun! :)

Feel free to contact me and I will do what I can to help point you in the right direction. I am not sure if they still have PMs here or if you can send me an email from here or not. If you look at my profile, you should be to get in touch. I won't post me email here because of spam. But I don't mind posting a phone number. Remember my advice is worth exactly what you are paying for it which is nothing...LOL

What you do with it is up to you. Just leave a msg if no one answers and I will get back with you.

Cheers,
Andrew

[Sean Conner]

Thank you so much Andrew! Very well timed words, and solid wisdom. Thank you so much for extending your phone number to me too. You rock!

...And you can edit your phone number out now. :)

Cheers,
Sean

[Feumet]

You are quite welcome.
Drop me an e and I will send you some resources.
Good luck with your Muse!

Cheers,
Andrew