I,m lost and need help

[chris_1978]

i'm having a real problem find ing a niche,i have been racking my brain so hard.

[madchadder]

I don't think you're going to get too much help with a broad question like that. Have you followed the steps outlined on pages 147-156? That's a good place to start and that's where I am right now - I'm actually writing down all my interests, groups, etc. like Tim recommends.

[diglyd]

from my experience the best way to find a niche is to actually devote a little time learning more about the general area or genre. Despite what anyone else tells you this cannot be avoided. This is why you are having a problem.

For example lets say you decide to look into vacuum cleaners becasue you worked with them or for hwatever reason they interested you. Go read and research anything you can regarding vacuum cleaners and the more you discover about the subject the more ideas will start to form in your head because you will begin to notcie what limitations exist and what opportunities have not been realized.

Some fileds or subjects might require years of study to really see the opportunities while others can be found with reletively a small amount of time. The point here is that with a little bit of research the ideas will start flowing.

Try to start with the things you do, or the things you like such as your hobbies or interests. Pick one of those things and start thinking about what you always wanted to see or have but did not exist, or look at what is popular but missing and can be inserted like a puzzle piece to complete the picture.

So for example there might be tons of supplements out there but in every area there usually isn't one that should be there part of the package that you say I wish that was in there or there isn't a certain flavor or size or shape. YOu don't have to re-invent the wheel just maybe create a new marketing approach, a new shape, a different look or a different way of uzing something that has not been approached before.

I hope this applies and helps you out. This is kind of how I come up with ideas. I jsut look at what I experienced and what I learned and try to see how each thing I came accross could be used to generate income or be improved in some way. Looking at life things as opportunities is a learned skill that needs to be practiced.

I spent a long time training myself to think like an enterpreneur and business owner instead of an employee and consumer. Instead of picking up someting in the store and saying "this is cool" I look at it and say "if I changed this and that and marketing with this it could sell better" or "If I took this from this box and this from that box and put it together like this maybe it could make a sellable package" or "if these ingredients were in here but it smelled like orange pinaple and was less mushy I bet it would sell better"

Always go with your gut feeling and research those ideas. As you research a little the idea will refine and you will come closer to your goal.

For now start with Wikipedia and look up some industry or subjent that interests you and find out more about it. After a few days of reseach you will *stumble* upon a niche that you like or an idea that others have not realized.

[jdlk]

Have you tried using thought webs or mind maps? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_map

This is how I discovered my muse idea (still in the planning stages). Do several over the run of a couple of days. If common trends start appearing daily then mind map those trends to drill down to further detail surrounding that area...your muse might be found inside.

Good luck!

[final_id]

I see a LOT of people here at the 4HWW forums working on "computer" or "information" oriented products. It seems, sometimes, that the whole book is just a manual on how to run an at-home business that sells stuff on the internet.

I'm personally in a bit of a different niche. I don't want to learn HTML and start doing all sorts of computerized things, partly just because I think there are plenty of other folks already competing in that world. Any college kid who's a whiz at making websites (active ones with shopping carts and that kind of internal programming; not just pretty pictures with fancy colored boldface) can trump me. If I come up with a product and make a store, the next kid can copy it easily, AND have less computer "overhead" in terms of time and grief.

So, for me, the whole game to applying the 4HWW is "learning to think like an entrepreneur." I think the exercises about finding out what your own niche already is, in the book, are useful. I keep going back to them and doing bits and pieces of them. So far I have begun to realize that (relative to the great unwashed masses out there) I more characteristically love choir, soccer, and dogs, that I want to sell a product rather than a service, that I am a clear and logical thinker, that I ... what else? These are all useful understandings. I wouldn't start selling NFL products to tone-deaf cat lovers. :) Etc.

I am also studying for the LSAT and anticipate beginning Law School (something I've always wanted to do). Although this is almost exactly contrary to Tim's advice -- working in the law is essentially a service industry, and is certainly time-intensive and does not liberate -- there are some parallels. Learning to "think like a lawyer" and trying on the entrepreneural hats are both similar exercises. They require an abandonment of old ways of doing things, and a quest for types of opportunities presented in the world at large. For me, so far, the law testing has required that I find an "opportunity" in terms of logical fallacies and weaknesses of the thoughts of others (something I've always been good at anyway); and for entrepreneurship it has been another form of weakness, the general public's weakness for opening up their wallets. Both are openings for attack. :)

One thing that gets me, that worries me about Tim's program, is that it is essentially internally contradictory. I personally have always experienced this contradiction in my own life, and therefore have often assumed that I do not have "what it takes" to be an entrepreneur. The way this contradiction has expressed itself with me, is that I (a) don't actually buy much stuff, and think that Wal-Mart is full of idiots whose point of view about material possessions (more more more!) is a point of view I personally do not share; (b) therefore don't think that I can empathize with the idiots in Wal-Mart sufficiently to sell to them. In other words, I don't really "fit in" with typical North American materialism in my own life, and thus would worry about trying to exploit that materialism for my own financial gain. I might not "get" that other people really really want their chewing gum mixed with salted peanuts, because I personally would never want that.

This is similar to a problem which Tim has inadvertently suggested. On the one hand, he says, we should all of us get rid of our material possessions and learn to live the vagabonding life. I whole-hearted concur, by the way! But on the other hand, he says, we can all of us learn to make other people gather unto themselves more more more material possessions (or vitamins; or e-books; or whatever). Well, if WE 4HWW-NR types are busy selling OFF all our things, then why would we understand what we want our customers to do, which is to BUY all our things? See the problem? :)

Of course, I presuppose my own (or any 4HWW-adherent's) inability to understand a human whose motivations and longer-term goals are different from my own. To the contrary, I can probably do a good job of imagining. But would it be as good a job, as someone who is ACTUALLY living the lifestyle of the rampant consumer?

[MyOwnSuperhero]

I think, final_id, that you've created for yourself a false dichotomy of ideas. You're seeing the "more isn't always better" ethos of Tim's book, which is more "anti-blind materialism" and wondering how to appropriately pair that with a successful business, which is materialistic at heart.

I think there are some important distinctions to make here. For starters, selling for selling's sake isn't the point, nor is it a spartan existence in the name of anti-materialism. Instead, it's a matter of finding balance, avoiding the unnecessary stuff (with physical or otherwise) to focus on what's truly important to us.

From the business stand point, while the idea of having people buy our products and services in a frenzy of materialistic consumption sounds good, that's not the point there either. The idea is to find an existing market, with a legitimate need, and then fill that need. That's not necessarily promoting blind consumerism, especially if the need you're filling is one that in any way helps, lifts or serves others.

[final_id]

Yes, the false dichotomy is mildly deliberate. But it's also not necessarily false. I'm just worrying my way through these issues.

Here's the core problem for me: I don't "love" business. I have no passion for it. I love logical reasoning and problem solving, I love soccer, I love my girlfriend. But when it comes right down to it, do I have the necessary "passion" for entrepreneurship that will see me through the tough patches? Absolutely not. I believe anyone who does, is rather short-sighted about life, and probably is poorly educated (though maybe "well trained" in certain financial skills) even if he holds a college degree. "Broaden your horizons!" is what I want to say to him or her. "Stop obsessing on money!"

I like Tim's thoughts in 4HWW because they participate, to at least some extent, in the belief in broader horizons. His book doesn't say, "If you love working all day, then you'll get rich!" Rather, it goes the other way 'round, admitting right at the start that none of us really loves working all day. I appreciate that candor and honesty.

But then I get started at trying to be an entrepreneur and I just come up with misgivings. I don't love setting up businesses. I feel guilty when I bilk a customer for maximum profit. I believe, deep down, the free market is not necessarily a force for good. (It CAN be, but it isn't necessarily. It's just a force. For profit for some, period. There are other good economic systems in the world, that work sometimes, sometimes much better that the ridiculously unjust social disparities that we have in the USA right now.) And so on.

Or, to put it differently: if I innately reject the "system," why would I think the "system" wouldn't in turn reject me? If I don't like buying and selling, then maybe I won't be very good at selling and buying. If I'm someone who would prefer a world without rampant consumerism (I'm attracted to 4HWW because it promises to reduce my own consumerism), then why would I contribute to rampant consumerism by trying to sell more unwanted, unneeded products?

See what I'm tryin' ta say here? It falls apart at the core, because I can't bring myself to eat the lotos. I don't "believe in" the remediative, positive, superior, all-healing power of THE MARKET. I don't think that buying and selling is always good.

Nobody with a brain does, if he's comfortable questioning any of his society's preconceptions.

[ChiTowner]

But when it comes right down to it, do I have the necessary "passion" for entrepreneurship that will see me through the tough patches? Absolutely not. I believe anyone who does, is rather short-sighted about life, and probably is poorly educated (though maybe "well trained" in certain financial skills) even if he holds a college degree. "Broaden your horizons!" is what I want to say to him or her. "Stop obsessing on money!"

I think that your own horizons could do with some broadening. Entrepreneurship does not automatically equal money obsession. I see entrepreneurship about having or cultivating the skills to be self sufficient, self confident, creative and to conduct your life under your terms. That is not at all 'short-sighted' or 'poorly educated'

I think that if you continue to hold such disdain for those you describe as ‘idiots in Walmart’ you may continue to struggle with putting into practice any of Tim’s propositions. Having a basic respect for people you don’t yet know is probably a prerequisite for successful interactions – business related or otherwise

Of course, I may have you totally wrong, but your posts do seem to follow a common theme

[Marcie]

And...perhaps we could use this thread to help Chris brainstorm something?

[ChiTowner]

And...perhaps we could use this thread to help Chris brainstorm something?

Point taken!

Chris, I often browse through ebay. Even if you're not looking to sell physical goods, there's literally hundreds of niches and sub-niches you could investigate with a view to putting together informational products about.

Check out the monthly 'hot items' report that details the items with the greatest bid and listing growth, within each category

http://pages.ebay.com/sellercentral/hotitems.pdf

In the antiques section, for example, what about writing the 'Top 20 Tips for Buying Genuine Japanese Boxes for Profit and Fun'? If there's a lot of interest in a category, there might be a market for teaching people how to:

- buy without getting ripped off
- sell for a profit
- maintain, repair, care for

Good for generating loads of ideas

[chris_1978]

thanks everbody that helped alot , well lets see what i can come up with.

[madchadder]

I don't think you're going to get too much help with a broad question like that.

I stand corrected. :o

There were some very good suggestions in this thread.

[final_id]

I see that I've stepped on some toes. Gee, forgive me for questioning society's mantra, that "to sell" must be a good thing. Forgive me, I forgot that some things must not be questioned.

Since the contrary argument -- that one must accept that selling is good, because ... well ... that's what one does -- has been so succinctly put, I am now happy to accept it as valid and reject all my previous understandings. I am now a glad and functioning cog in this, the best of all possible worlds. I have doohickeys and gewgaws (mostly made in China with lead paint) to overprice and sell to Mexican migrant laborers, now, and I know that such behavior contributes to the best of all possible worlds in the best of all possible ways, so you'll excuse me if I reconsider this discussion.

:)

Oh, all right, that's just too harsh of me. I think I'm mildly being misunderstood. For the people to whom I wish to say, "broaden your horizons, young man," what I really wish to say is, "Read 4HWW and it can help you broaden your horizons." It's the ones who "love" business merely because they haven't found anything more laudable to love, that worry me. What a waste of a soul, to expend a lifetime in the crass pursuit of mannon. On the other hand, the ones who "use" business (well, more accurately, its profits) to fund a desirable lifestyle? Them I find sane. Much like me, in fact.

My worry is that much of business requires "passion" or "commitment." Entrepreneurs who don't "love what they're doing" inevitably fail: so say the guidebooks. Well ... I HATE BUSINESS. So, where does that leave me, if I want to actually make a living? Isn't there some way around this conundrum, other than just ... remaining poor forever? I like doing good work, and I often like the finished product (if I'm proud of it), and I sometimes like being in charge of other people, and I generally like firing idiots, and of course I like cashing a large paycheck; I just hate all that "look Ma! I'm commuting! I have spreadsheets! I must be important!" type of behavior and insecurity. And the fact that Shakespeare studies makes a lot less profit than Veblen and Keynes studies. That I hate, too. What I hate about work is all that it has in common with "The Office." And I'm not "committed" or "enthusiastic" about ANYTHING ... except maybe sex. :)

[nyclawgurl]

I too am having difficulty finding a "niche". Well, let me rephrase. I do not have a problem finding a niche. I am an attorney. I obviously have that credibility behind my name. But I am finding with my law practice that I am very hands on and I do not have my freedom. I have therefore arranged for some assistance within my firm. Problem one solved. That leaves me with the next issue. Finding an ongoing income generator that does not require my complete attention, mandated 24 hour call back policy etc. Does anyone have an idea or input on a market I can corner with my experience and my title. I am looking for something that allows me to travel. I LOVE to travel. I love to be moving and going. My family has the same wanderlust. Keep us still and we languish. I would really appreciate any insight. Thanks in advance for the help.

[Zedd]

This entire thread seems to me a fertile ground for ideas. At the very least the philosophical debate and the number of replies would tell me, as I am sure you all know, that people love to talk about their beliefs and quandries. I am sure I am not alone, when I remember the nights at the local Denny's or some other diner talking to 'friends' about the meaning of life. Some times the platform for income generation could be nothing more than providing a place online for other people to talk about stuff they find interesting and capitalizing on the free content that they provide. Seems that plenty of "self-dev" resources do just this. Also using your own particular opinions to open the door to conversation and thought is marketable given enough creative presentation.

To the nyclawgirl, legal advice is always a marketable thing. Find out what is often searched or asked, and creating targeted FAQ's are a sellable item. If people ask you more questions just make new FAQ's that you can add to the volumes. I myself am always interested in various legal aspects of daily life. Our glorious american education system teaches none of the larvae-cogs how to be, what is acceptable, and what our recourse is insofar as the average citizen is concerned.

As an example Mr. Ferris has created a community of like minded individuals that are discussing relevant, and some non relevant, topics. This can serve us all to gain new insight and inspiration. The same can be done by leveraging a legal info for the legally ignorant. Watch the forums, site some relevant web resources, make an ebook that answers recurring questions....

idunno maybe it will work, you would know.

I scream and hit things for a living, so i might be off :)

which is exactly what im doing here..

http://www.bushidolife.com/joomla

[deanypop]

I hit upon a muse idea that struck me as having potential... All I need is a good, knowledgeable lawyer with 4 hours a week to spare. Or less, maybe.

Don't really want to go into it too deeply just yet - still making sure there aren't a million of these out there already... But, it's all legal (literally), and definitely something of widespread need. If you'd be at all interested in collaborating on a "first muse", let me know. I'm sure once we get that first one out there, understand the process, etc... The next one and the next one will be easier. No?

[nyclawgurl]

I hit upon a muse idea that struck me as having potential... All I need is a good, knowledgeable lawyer with 4 hours a week to spare. Or less, maybe.

Don't really want to go into it too deeply just yet - still making sure there aren't a million of these out there already... But, it's all legal (literally), and definitely something of widespread need. If you'd be at all interested in collaborating on a "first muse", let me know. I'm sure once we get that first one out there, understand the process, etc... The next one and the next one will be easier. No?

Why don't you email me at my private email. jacosta@lawyer.com. I would love to discuss your "muse". I just so happen to be a knowledgable lawyer. I look forward to speaking with you.

[nyclawgurl]

thanks. unfortunately, the rules of the bar and ethics make it difficult to post any real in depth legal advice. it leads to people suing when they take the advise and use it improperly etc. thank you so much for the input. you dont know how much i wish i got to hit things for a living.