Apartment in Berlin

[ItsMe]

Hello,

on page 237 of the Book Tim writes


Enormous apartment in the trendy SoHo-like Prenzlauerberg district of Berlin, including phone and energy $300 U.S. per month

I am German and have been in Berlin some time. I have never seen a furnished apartment of average size for less than 750 Euro. Which is $1000 U.S. and without phone and energy.

For the mentioned 300 US$, which is about 240 Euros including energy, you might get a single room (120 sq ft.) in a shared flat in the worst suburbs.

This calculation really frustated me, because now I dont know if I can beliebe anything Tim wrote.

Can you tell me, where I can find an enormous apartment for $300 U.S in Berlin? Thanks in advance.

[JSimpson]

Agreed I only spent a month or so on a study abroad in Dusseldorf, but my travels and the costs there don't lead me to believe that the figure Tim quoted is feasable.

Did Tim possibly travel through there 10-15 years ago? It could have been possible maybe, but I've also done some checking for Chile and find the prices to be over what he quoted as well.

[captaink]

Yes, very old numbers.
But then, that is subject to change everywhere. Rates in Berlin have been going
uphill since it became the capital, anyway.

::captaink::

[Batman]

Agreed I only spent a month or so on a study abroad in Dusseldorf, but my travels and the costs there don't lead me to believe that the figure Tim quoted is feasable.

Did Tim possibly travel through there 10-15 years ago? It could have been possible maybe, but I've also done some checking for Chile and find the prices to be over what he quoted as well.

Perhaps Tim didn't settle with the retail price - maybe he negotiated those rates?

I have a friend of mine that gets great deals by ngotiating for things all the time

7 out of 10 times when there is space available he gets upgraded from coach to first class on flights for passing the attendant $20

I am fairly certain he isn't just calling someone and accepting the price

[Marcie]

He just posted an answer to this question in the current comments of his blog, FYI:

Hi Conrad,

The apartment I rented was on Schonhauser Allee, right above the Thai restaurant on the corner, about 3 blocks from Eberswalder (spelling?) Strasse station. It’s a great area.

The key? I negotiated well. It started off at around 750 Euros and then I got it down to 300 for the space and an additional 25 or so for energy. I used a separate unlocked cell phone for calling friends, etc. To find it, I used the Zitty and Bild weekly magazines in Berlin.

I hope that helps! Learning and practicing creative dealmaking is key for getting the most from the least. It’s not that hard — it just takes a few dress rehearsals on smaller things to then tackle homes, rentals, cars, flights… the whole lot.

Cheers!

Tim

[Batman]

He just posted an answer to this question in the current comments of his blog, FYI:

Hi Conrad,

The apartment I rented was on Schonhauser Allee, right above the Thai restaurant on the corner, about 3 blocks from Eberswalder (spelling?) Strasse station. It’s a great area.

The key? I negotiated well. It started off at around 750 Euros and then I got it down to 300 for the space and an additional 25 or so for energy. I used a separate unlocked cell phone for calling friends, etc. To find it, I used the Zitty and Bild weekly magazines in Berlin.

I hope that helps! Learning and practicing creative dealmaking is key for getting the most from the least. It’s not that hard — it just takes a few dress rehearsals on smaller things to then tackle homes, rentals, cars, flights… the whole lot.

Cheers!

Tim

Ok I am feeling pretty darn cocky right now

[Vagabond]

Still seems a little weird because it doesnt really have anything to do with negotiation tactics or skill. If the going rate is $750 per month then i dont care how good of a negotiator you are what incentive does the renter have to give it to you for 40% of the price? Just doesnt seem realistic.

That being said, hasnt apt prices in Berlin increased quite a bit in the last 3-5yrs.. maybe this was a little ways back.. but then again he did say the going rate was $750 so idk

[Marcie]

The renter will be getting 0 if it's not rented, so I guess the incentive is to get something instead of nothing!

[Batman]

The renter will be getting 0 if it's not rented, so I guess the incentive is to get something instead of nothing!

Like priceline without the rentor having to pay a commission :cool:

[Vagabond]

The renter will be getting 0 if it's not rented, so I guess the incentive is to get something instead of nothing!


I feel like that strategy is only applicable to things like flights and cruises because once the cruises/flights leave then theyre getting 0. But taking 60% off rent is unheard of, of course this could be skewed since i'm from new york which has some of the most expensive and in-demand real estate in the country. id love to see time pull that here ;)

[Drewkerr]

IT all comes down to the something or nothing. If they apartment sits empty the lanlord still has overhead on the apartment, and if there is no rent that month they can have negative cashflow. So again timing is everything, you come at the right time and ask the right way, you can get a good deal.

I just went down the beach and got a hotel room for $100 off the normal price. It took me walking into 3 different hotels, but i got the discount.
I simply drove around and found a place where the parking lot seemed empty and went in and asked how many rooms they have open, then asked the price, and offered half, and said I am just staying the night and can only afford this amount. Also it was after 5pm when i went looking, so I imagined most people had already checked in for the day too.

When I am in Italy in the spring I will make a thread on my apartment hunting and nego experience.


Drew

[Talon]

Humor anyone know how to rent places out? I must not being doing it well here are some of my attempts

Big town life
(585) 242-0794 Ext 101 Phone Rochester NY 2 bedroom, off street parking, close to work, Univseristy of Rochester 1 mile away $450 2 bedrooms
- 1 bedroom 225--
Close to the following
2.1 miles from empire state college
.9 miles from 195 Denver St, Rochester, NY Saint John Fisher College
.6 miles from 302 Goodman St N Ste 200, Rochester, NY Onondaga School of Therapeutic
1 mile from Unversity of Rochester 135 Copeland St, Rochester, NY
Middle town life
For rent spacious 3 bedrooms, basement and garage-$330
To see property call-Charles 906-346-3996
Bomarc Gwinn, Michigan 49841 on bus route to NORTHWESTERN MICHIGAN COLLEGE, international airport, and golf course.
Small town life
1142 Steubenville ave price 350
1 bedroom, off street parking, wheel chair ramp, washer, and dryer
call 740 255 6958
For those that want to swap a place Orlando place is available call 650 996 5504 if interested in buying Place selling cheap living in Orlando
Call Carol at 1575 Pel Street, Orlando, FL 32828 • (407) 281-6029 14069 Hunters Grove 3 bedrooms, nice family community leased land, own the home.
Great for winter vacation.
<>
When you live in Deerwood, you will be approximately:

5 minutes from...
Easy access convenience stores
Greenway
Post office
Orlando Speed World
Gas stations
Major shopping center
Camelot Elementary School
Lockheed-Martin Corp.

10 minutes from...
Valencia Community College
Discovery Middle School
Florida Hospital East
Major shopping centers
Econ River
Central Florida Research Park
Koger Office Park
Orlando Utility Corp. plant
University of Central Florida
Timber Creek High School
Park Care Walk-in Clinic
Jay Blanchard Recreational Area
Westinghouse Electric Corp.
Electronics companies
E-W Expressway
Orlando Executive Airport

20 minutes from...
Downtown Orlando—Church Street
Interstate 4
Winter Park
Brevard County line
Florida Turnpike
Citrus Bowl
Fashion Square Mall
Cocoa Utilities water plant
Seminole County line
Orlando International Airport
Sea World
Epcot Center
Orange County Convention Center
Lake Buena Vista
Walt Disney World
International Drive
Major tourist attractions
Outlet malls

30 minutes from...
Cocoa Beach
Tupperware Auditorium
Kissimmee
Atlantic Ocean
Kennedy Space Center
Silver Spurs Rodeo

[Ibanez]

Negotiating also works for other things too. Some old guy was telling me how at mom and pop shops or maybe even some larger but not international stores you can negotiate a lower price through paying cash,ie "If I pay it in cash how much can you take off?"

[gsimd]

Hi All,

This thread inspired me to post a step-by-step guide on our blog about how get a dirt cheap luxury apartment in cities around the globe. I'm sure Tim uses several of our techniques. I'd love to hear any additional ideas you have.

http://www.familyhack.com/2007/08/09/dirt-cheap-luxury-apartments/

Best,
Michael

[jacksonhunter31]

I have been to Berlin several times--never for long periods--after reading Tim's book I too was skeptical about the apartment prices. So I looked at craigslist and found several in nice areas (Charlottenburg) listed for less than $500 euros..so maybe he is not full of sh**...

[final_id]

One thing we tend to overlook in foreign settings is the fact that it can be "fun" just to commute from a drab neighborhood. If you're not going to be involved in the rat-race daily grind of a commute in a foreign city, then setting yourself in any of the distant neighborhoods, or in a seedy district, is just fine, and in fact can be rather a benefit. As Tim puts it somewhere, it can become an adventure merely to try to find a dress shirt in Buenos Aires. If, to the contrary, I were wearing a dress shirt daily, and wanted a safe place to dock my family while I went to an office, in Buenos Aires, then I guess I'd have to worry that my apartment costs would be higher than the "vagabond" style Tim reported that he was able to find. But I'm not doing that, I'm free to ENJOY living in crappy digs on the outskirts near some weird abandoned factory. That becomes FUN. :) And especially in Europe, where the crime is negligible compared to the US, a borderline neighborhood might also be more interesting for meeting a variety of human types.

[gsimd]

Cliff is right. Staying in a "drab" neighborhood can be a good experience. In Buenos Aires, we have stayed in upscale Recoleta and bohemian San Telmo. Both provided a lot of interesting experiences. Always remember, just because someone is poor, doesn't mean they are a criminal. It's that mindset that keeps people from experiencing a lot in life.

Michael
familyhack.com

[bohans99]

I feel that the concept of all this is to take the opportunity to go and see for yourself. Tim is obviously skilled in knowing what he wants and how to get it and this is the challenge and one that we can all get better at with practice. If you want to pay full price then feel free as this is what subsidises others paying less.

[doubletfan]

Real estate is exactly like hotel rooms. In fact, hotel rooms are real estate. Lets say I have a rental for $750, but it's been on the market for 3 months. The rental cost me $400 a month. So I've lost $1200 during the last 3 months. Someone comes around and says, look, I'll give you $200 a month - I say, "no way", he says how about $250 - I think "if I take $300, I'll lose $100 a month. But I'm making at least that much in appreciation. And, if I don't take this, it could sit on the market for three more months, where I'll lose another $1200, which is what I'll lose if I rent this to this guy for a whole year. I'll rent it to him for 6 months, and then see what the market looks like at that time. Besides, I can't afford to lose another $400! Oh, and I forgot to mention, I own 10 other rentals, 3 of them are vacant. I'd rather them up at $300 a month, and then look for a $750 renter the next time someone give me notice.

[Labayu]

In the American and UK markets nearly all the rental properties are owned by buy-to-let-mortgage holders. If the mortgage is paid off then most likely a new one will be taken out to buy more property. If the landlord follows this model then it is likely that you will not be able to rent it for less than their repayments unless they can cover the shortfall. Many wannabe property moguels have lost all their property by accepting a small loss which builds up into big losses.

If however the landlord owns the property clear and isn't leveraging the value to buy more (i.e. he has no minumum outgoings that the rent needs to cover) then you might get a $1000 a month property for $300 a month especially if it's on a short lease.

Case in point: lots of my friends are either students or young proffesionals living just outside London, many of them house sharing. The average rent on a 3 bed place is £1,300-ish (give or take a couple of hundred). There is one landlord who was left 10 or 15 houses in a kind of trust fund. He can't sell them and can't take out a mortgage on them. He rents them out for about £650 a month. Same houses, same street but half the price. Part of it is that he can't be bothered re-negotiating deals and having unstaedy income with people leaving. He knows he's getting £650 a month per house every month. When one person moves out there is always a friend of a friend who wants to move in. If there isn't he can advertise it in the cheapest possible way (notice in a shop window) and get dozens of offers. For such a cheap price they respect the place because they don't want to be kicked out and pay double and he can choose those who look like they can be trusted and doesn't have to wait more than a week to fill an empty house/appartment.

[Michael]

Tim is right on the money when it comes to living in luxury for not a lot of cash. :)

I'm currently living in San Francisco area with luxury accommodations and it works. You have to change your way of thinking and open yourself up to new opportunities and act upon them.

Instead of filling the board up with a long post on this thread... I went ahead and wrote a response to this topic on my blog. It includes my own experience and success in acquiring luxury accommodations.

http://www.halfhourworkweek.com/2007/09/07/luxury-living-on-the-cheap/

(direct link to the post!)

Please take a moment to read it and find that Tim is certainly on the right track -- and not off balance with his numbers, either!

Great thread, everyone!

Michael
halfhourworkweek.com (http://www.halfhourworkweek.com/)

[gsimd]

If any of you are traveling with kids, check out:

10 Essential Packing Rules for Traveling with Kids.
http://www.familyhack.com/2007/09/18/packing-rules/

I hope it helps you all live the 4hww mobile lifestyle.


Best,
Michael
http://www.familyhack.com

[gobytrain]

His deal making stuff had me very skeptical (he has some silly ideas too, believe it or not), but I tried it almost jokingly on rent recently and got almost 40% off / month, I was totally blown away. I know the places were not in hot demand, but I would never have asked otherwise. I don't know how much I'm able to dicker, but I have to admit that I was pretty impressed with my first (and so far only) try....