Outsourcing Company Suggestions.

[FreedomFinder]

Due to difficulties with Outsourcers on the beloved Elance, I am looking for a cost-efficient solution to my outsourcing needs. I just need basic VA things, data-entry, darn good research, postings, etc. I'm also looking fora cost-efficient solution (which certainly rules out Brickwork) between $4-$5/hour for basic tasks. As Tim recommended in his book, it is better to go with a company vs. one person who may not be able to get the job done in a timely manner for this reason or that. Has anyone found anyone worth recommending? If so, please do let us know.

[Matthew Connors]

Why not go with tims reccomendation MMII

[FreedomFinder]

The book says YMII is at LEAST $6.25/hour... and that was pre-4HWW, who knows what it is now. These lil Indian Outsourcing shops should be a dime a dozen with massive competition, but everyone seems to only know about Brickwork and YMII who are too overloaded with work and customers to give any new clients the attention they deserve, I've heard complaints as such,

[sub8hr]

There are already tons of posts about outsourcing. Searching through those would be a good place to start. If I had the money to hire someone dedicated for $600 or so a month I'd probably go with staffinseconds, but that's probably beyond the level you are looking for.

[shanerbock]

staffinseconds is good... just used them for a bit of work. but, you'll need to commit to halftime or fulltime.

agentsofvalue is also good... same thing, they require a minimum amount of work per month. They also require a setup fee that is more than staffinseconds in most cases.

Both of these companies utilize resources in the Philippines. The filipinos are good people, hard working, and they speak english (even though its a bit different in style sometimes than ours).

If I were you and didn't want to pay a regular halftime or fulltime agreement with one of those companies, I would look for a VA in the philippines. I've used VAs in India, Pakistan, Ukraine, Brazil, and others.... I had better luck with filipinos and their cost is less than most other places too.

Best of luck!

Make it a great day!
shane

[FreedomFinder]

Where do you guys search? I've searched Elance, oDesk, Getafreelancer, and (the pathetic) Guru.com, as well as using Boolean Search stings on Google, and haven't found any decent ones who will work hourly... any suggestions?

EDIT: StaffinSeconds costs $700/month Part time, and $1300/month Full-tim (40 hours per week). Timesvr.com only charges $850/month for 48 hours per week (8x6), however I called them, and they're hourly rate is $8.75 min.

[Darren]

I think the book gave false hope on this issue. Maybe people read into it wrong and it is their fault but Tim made it sound like it was a piece of cake finding someone for $4/hour. It is deceptive.

I do wonder if it would be advantageous for someone to head to the Philippines and start a company that actually offers high quality VA's for low prices (that is what we are all looking for BTW) with out bullshit like signing up for some kind of plan. The VA companies listed are as bad as cell phone providers now.

When I used to be in music, every couple of years a company would come out with a product that was very good yet low priced for the masses: Alesis reverb had one, and Mackie mixers had one. And EVERYONE in the masses bought them. They made tons of cash. Just like Henry Ford did with the Model T. eBay did that at first. Wal-mart. the list goes on......

People need to go back to THAT business model instead of the deception model that most are using now.

Good or decent product, LOW cost.

[David-Andrew]

I pay about $17 an hour, and have no complaints. My VA is smart, professional and gets assignments done on time, and correct the first time.

You want good stuff? Pay more!

[jkendrick]

Well it totally depends on what you need done, IMO. I have one VA that I use for very simple research and data entry. The task is simple, but mundane and time consuming. I pay $2/hr. I have to make corrections now and then, but it is certainly worth it for that low of a cost.

[Darren]

You want good stuff? Pay more!

The POINT David, is to get good stuff for less money. I could easily hire someone very good for $17/hr. You are not doing anything special....

[Darren]

Well it totally depends on what you need done, IMO. I have one VA that I use for very simple research and data entry. The task is simple, but mundane and time consuming. I pay $2/hr. I have to make corrections now and then, but it is certainly worth it for that low of a cost.

Sounds like a smart move on your part. Did you go through a company, or is it a private contact? Do they offer other services?

[DaveCraige.com]

yea you get what you pay for.

tim talks about $4 an hour people, but his main assistant is $35 an hour (http://fourhourworkweek.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=2854).

[FreedomFinder]

Amy (Tim's main assistant) does do a great job I'm sure, but she is also in a country with a slightly higher income per capita than us, she's not outsourced. And for $17/hour I'm sure you could the equivalent of a $50/hour VA in the U.S. I have found a VA that worked OK for $3/hour, he was in Pakistan, however, I'd like to use an actual business that is multi-talented, and I'm willing to pay 66% more for it, but from what I've seen, it's at least more than 210% more for that luxury (not the 10% mentioned in the 4HWW). For $17/hour I can hire someone locally, in one of the most expensive counties in the U.S.

[Darren]

yea you get what you pay for.

Not always. The smart people try to get MORE value with what they pay for. One of my previous posts named a few things that were offering huge value at very low cost. So, you are not completely right.

I don't care that Tim or you or anyone else can afford a $35/hr assistant.....most people reading the book and trying these methods are not capable of affording that (I would guess).

There are $4-$7 per hour VA's out there...who are quality. There is always someone out there offering higher quality while still being substantially below the typical pricing. The smarter people are looking for them. The lowest common denominators are accepting whatever the norm is.

[chrisd]

I pay about $17 an hour, and have no complaints. My VA is smart, professional and gets assignments done on time, and correct the first time.

You want good stuff? Pay more!
Darren (And Everyone Else!)

I couldnt agree more. In outsourcing (I've been involved for 10 years!) you certainly do get what you pay for!

The better the vendor the better the experience. Its worth paying more!

Best,
Chris

[The_Cynic]

My suggestion,

I hired several graphic designers by just posting on Criagslist Bangalore. Like anything I will give a few a try and go with the most reliable.

On the company vs person debate I say go with a person, make it clear that you will cut them if they do not perform, if you hire them direct they get much more than they would if they worked through a company, for good people that means more motivation to perform.

Example current exchange 49 rupees = $1 usd,

Indian companies pay their employees nothing. 15,000 to 20,000 rupees per month depending on qualifications.

You can offer 25,000 to 30,000 (USD$ 500 to 600/month) for a full time employee that will perform better than a company.

[DaveCraige.com]

Darren,

Have you been able to find a great $4-$7 an hour personal assistant for assorted tasks?

I think that I will need to pay at least $500+ a month to find somebody fulltime who is good.

I think most people who want great English and business skills will have to pay quite a bit more.

Drop me a line with an update, I am interested to hear.

[FreedomFinder]

OK, here's the scoop. Since my OP, I actually have found a pretty decent VA company, that so far, has completed a project for me, pretty well, and is now working on another. I wouldn't say they're top notch but they're good for the price. They charge $7/hour, w/ no minimum, but, what really impressed me is that you can get one for only $650/month, for 216 hours, which is 48 hours per week: 8 hours a day, 6 days a week. I've just been paying the higher price for now, since it's not economical for me to bring one on full-time, as I don't have enough for them to do. If you want to check 'em out, they do a whole bunch of different things, including standard VA stuff, Sales, IT, etc. You can find 'em at www.livehelpindia.com, and they're sister IT provider, www.cisin.com. Hope that helps, and like I said, they're not the best, but they're good for the price, and obedient.

[DaveCraige.com]

Freedomfighter,

Thanks for the info. What tasks have they done for you so far?
What tasks didn't they do well?

[FreedomFinder]

Freedomfighter,

Thanks for the info. What tasks have they done for you so far?
What tasks didn't they do well?

So far just research and data collection. There's a bit of a learning curve to giving clear orders, which may have been the problem, but like Tim suggests, if you say it like you're talking to a 2nd grader, and read it back to yourself through their eyes, you shouldn't have a problem.

[Dus10]

Thanks Freedomfighter,

Your persistence seems to have paid off for you. At first glance, "you get what you pay for," seems to be a natural law, but I find it to be regular conventional wisdom that is worth challenging. If you don't have the time to search for a good value, then stick with paying a higher rate.

I love finding products that are superior, and I will become brand loyal... but I love finding a better value, more than anything.

[Gongchime]

I'm about to start working full time again and won't have as much time to devote to my muse which I would like to keep pushing forward even faster than before. It means I need a Personal Assistant but someone who can help me test the price of my product, write and submit articles, blogs, newsletters, help me do tracking, set up a scheduled auto responder, open a yahoo store, ebay store, negotiate advertising fees from magazines, find and employ graphic designer for the ads, set up interviews with experts and interview them, put an 800 number on my website, put audio on my website, and an opt in form, operate the 90 day ppc marketing plan via adwords etc...

Any recommendations as to what I should do myself and what I should farm out? Any recommendations on a company to approach? Also, what should be first, second, you know the drill.

Thanks,

Greg

[DaveCraige.com]

My suggestion,

I hired several graphic designers by just posting on Criagslist Bangalore. Like anything I will give a few a try and go with the most reliable.

On the company vs person debate I say go with a person, make it clear that you will cut them if they do not perform, if you hire them direct they get much more than they would if they worked through a company, for good people that means more motivation to perform.

Example current exchange 49 rupees = $1 usd,

Indian companies pay their employees nothing. 15,000 to 20,000 rupees per month depending on qualifications.

You can offer 25,000 to 30,000 (USD$ 500 to 600/month) for a full time employee that will perform better than a company.


TheCynic,

Yea I agree with this. Well put. Have you actually found any really good designers though? I have had a bit of trouble and might pay more for design from my American and European designers.

Thanks

[DaveCraige.com]

Greg,

If you don't mind me asking, how much do you have to invest in a VA?

Some of those tasks could be done by just an assistant, however others will probably require more training and probably a person more specialized. You could get a pretty good person to do some of that stuff for probably 300 a month, however to really do a good job you are probably looking at $500 a month or more.

My Indian co-worker makes about $800 a month. He does great work. He could probably find other people like himself if you had a good budget.

[FreedomFinder]

Livehelpindia.com/cisin.com actually turned out to be not that good at all. Wouldn't recommend them after I asked them to send out e-mails on Craigslist and they were sending out about 12/hour (joke?), at $7/hour. Then I told the guy he was fired, and he recommended to me that I hire one of his VA's full time (no joke).

The Search continues...

[DaveCraige.com]

sorry to hear your frustration, yea some people suck.

Are you still interested in getting emails sent out? I am pretty sure I could find you somebody for $8.50 an hour that can do this task correctly.

[TomMurzenski]

I hope it's not inappropriate to plug my own service. I've read the book, loved it, and would like to help everybody. As somebody suggested - I have "gone to the Philippines" and started my own VA company. Well, not really "gone" - I'm still in New Jersey, for now.

To make a long story short, I have been using a Filipino VA for about two years now. He has excellent local connections. About 9 years ago, I co-founded a company that does marketing in the insurance industry. About two months ago we started advertising VAs to insurance agents to do appointment setting for them, and it has been extremely successful so far.

I started charging $4/hr. After a week, I bumped it to $5. I'm thinking $6 pretty soon. We are finding extraordinarily qualified candidates. All are college graduates or college educated. Some had to stop their studies to work. Some have multiple undergraduate degrees. Some are law students or law school graduates. There are lots of unemployed nurses (RNs). I've found every profession you can think of - architects, accountants, engineers, researchers - you name it.

Other than my own VA, I don't have any connection to the Philippines to bias myself, but I do find Filipinos to be very loyal and VERY hard workers. As far as language, some have an accent, but most have very little to no accent. We find lots of people with call center experience, so their native accent has been "neutralized."

My model is a one-on-one dedicated VA. Contact by Skype, which a local phone number provided. Full-time or part-time only. No long term commitment, but I am not really looking for customers who just have a little project to do every once in a while. I'm looking to provide the VAs with stable, long-term jobs.

If you think VAs are being exploited when you only pay $5/hr - NOT TRUE! Even at that low cost, I am able to pay the VAs a salary that is 2x or 3x as much as they would make in any other profession.

I find the concept of supervising VAs with cameras or screen sharing to be kind of silly. Isn't the idea to find better things to do with your time than supervise somebody that's making $5/hr? You give your VA tasks. If the tasks are being completed, you're happy. If not, you're sad. What is the point of supervising?

If I get about 150 VAs working, I won't have to work any more!

[avamarie]

Freedom Finder - why is guru.com pathetic?

Thanks,
Tiffani

[FreedomFinder]

Freedom Finder - why is guru.com pathetic?

Thanks,
Tiffani

Hey Tiffani, it's because of the fees they charge to their VA's for using the service, which, last time I checked, forced the VA's to charge a MINIMUM of $8/hour for any service. Around that same time I got a VA on Elance for $3/h, who did a decent job.

[Monkiii]

Hey Tom,

I took a look at the site in your profile (virtualassistantgirls.com) which I assume is your muse that you mentioned in the post above. I'm interested in your service, but thought I should give you some feedback from a customers point of view.

Your page is decent overall, and does a good job of explaining the benefits of having a virtual assistant (although I would add that they make your business scalable as there are always more of them, but only one "you"). It's clean, looks nice and is readable.

It is missing a couple of vital things though that I was looking for. There are no advertised rates, or even instructions on how to get them. I'm guessing you want people to contact you for rates but generally I don't bother wasting my time with places that do that.

Second, but more serious from a business perspective, is that there is no "call to action" or clear, obvious way for me to do what you want, ie "Book a Virtual Assistant NOW" (incidentally, I was looking for that to see if I could find your rates :))

I'd also shrink / limit to the homepage the rather huge banner to show more of the actual page information.

Anyway, it looks like a great muse idea which I'm interested in learning more about. I'll contact you through the site though as you only seem to have skype enabled on your profile.

Cheers

Monkiii