Cms?

[RichB]

I've seen a few CMS apps brought up here and was wondering what I would need one for if I'm comfortable with a WYSIWYG editor like Dreamweaver. Are they that much easier?

[PhilnCedarPark]

Whenever you work on a message here - its very similar to CMS systems.

The difference is you usually need to install and set up a CMS - which usually stores content in a DB, as well as the templates and even code to generate your pages.

You can try out various open source software - as an admin and as a user - for free at:

http://www.opensourcecms.com/index.php

Again - if you are not technical, many hosting companies will set up one of these for low or no cost. It is also better for the non-technical folks if you try out what you like, review the support forums at the various sites, then ask for bids on eLance or craigslist specifically for that product.

[RichB]

so these are things that I install on the web server at my hosting company to make changes with? This is different from the website builders built into my hosting plan right?

[PhilnCedarPark]

Correct. Although some hosting plans also have some open source CMS and blog software that you can install automatically as well.

[Webzu]

You can get up and running fast with CMS over doing it from scratch with Dreamweaver. I did this site for a friend using Joomla:

http://chrisclarkzone.com

My host has Joomla as pre-installed script so all I had to do was push a button. I used a different skin than the default but that is also easy to use. You upload the skin you want to your server then you select it in the admin panel. And it comes with an html editor so you can tweak your posts code if you want.

It depends on the site I'm doing but I still use templates which I edit with Dreamweaver. But for CMS I use Joomla, and Wordpress for blogs. If you're good with coding you might prefer doing it yourself but CMS saves a lot of time.

[RichB]

I'm done some poking around the cmsmadesimple app and it looks like it does have a lot of value. Certainly better than me stumbling through Dreamweaver.

It seems like the templates I've found are more or less just the framework of the page, such as the number of columns, type of menu, etc. Looking at the examples posted of sites people have done with CMS tools in another thread the images seem to be pretty custom. How do those get made or does the CMS assist with that?

I think a basic 3 column template would be best for me. Once I get the CMS installed and integrated with the template, I'd like to try to do it myself so I'm not completely dependent on others to manage it. The images do present an issue to me as I know the basics of CSS and HTML but not a thing about graphical work.

Thanks for the push in this direction Phil and Webzu.

[RichB]

I use 1and1 for hosting and if possible I prefer to keep it there because I have numerous sites and it's easier to manage from one place. Do I have to be concerned about them not being compatible with these CMS apps? I don't see any mention of CMS support anywhere in their support docs.

[Webzu]

I use 1and1 for hosting and if possible I prefer to keep it there because I have numerous sites and it's easier to manage from one place. Do I have to be concerned about them not being compatible with these CMS apps? I don't see any mention of CMS support anywhere in their support docs.

Is this your host: 1an1 (www.1and1.com)?

I took a look at their site and they have their own control panel with one-click install of Joomla and Drupal (drupal which is another CMS). You need to log in to your control panel and you can install Joomla from there. If you do it at the root it will be at www.yourdomain.com if you install it to a folder name it whatever and it will www.yourdomain.com/whatever.

[RichB]

Maybe I accidentally ate shellfish but I've looked in every nook and cranny of my control panel and the 1and1.com site and don't see any mention of it. can you tell me where you're seeing that or post me a link? Thanks.

[Webzu]

Maybe I accidentally ate shellfish but I've looked in every nook and cranny of my control panel and the 1and1.com site and don't see any mention of it. can you tell me where you're seeing that or post me a link? Thanks.

It's here. (http://order.1and1.com/xml/order/Hosting;jsessionid=BF70B9801B70EC7916774D303604B5A A.TC61a?__frame=_top&__lf=Static) (scroll down)
See screenshot (you might need to contact their support if you can't find it).
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/1623/firefoxscreensnapz002ku5.png

[RichB]

I found it over on the side panel, thanks. I'll have to call support and see what they say, it's nowhere to be found in my control panel, unless my package doesn't offer it although I have a business package..

[RichB]

I called 1and1 support and nobody seemed to know what I was talking about. I finally got a rep who knew what I was saying but said since I bought my hosting package before the offered the new apps I wouldn't have access and needed to cancel my package and resign up. After I got over my shock of the rep telling me to cancel service, I did just that and resigned up my hosting package. When I happily clicked my now visible icon in my control panel I got this:


Coming Soon

Haven't found the application you are looking for? The following applications will be available soon:

* joomla
* mantis
* moodle
* PostNuke
* phpAds
* Drupal
* anyinventory
* brim
* eGroupWare
* Mediawiki
* myorgbook
* noahclass
* tikiwiki
* WebCalendar

1and 1 blows.

[RichB]

Anyone use Xoops? How does it compare to cmsmadesimple or joomla? Should I just use that or should I have joomla installed on my server through elance? Or is it really simple to do myself?

[RichB]

or Drupal? They seem to have better themes that I can find.

Is the theme I pick all that important? Can't I change it very easily anyway, isn't that the point? Or is only the content easily altered?

[Webzu]

Wow! I can't believe you had to cancel and re-sign up! Pretty crappy! You're right they suck! Check out Dream Host and Host Gator if you decide to ditch 1 and 1 web hosting.

I've played with Xoops and Drupal but that's it so I don't know much about it but I Drupal was better and a lot of folks like Drupal. It's not as easy to customize as Joomla if you're not very techy.

[darrin365]

I have 1 &1 hosting as well. They have a great uptime, lots of features and tons of space and bandwidth at a cheap price. But they really suck at support and customer service. Luckily, I generally know enough to not need the service and I'm broke enough to need the cheap price. :)

Dreamhost is highly recommended by many people I've met.

Joomla is pretty simple to install. I tried Xoops years ago. If I recall correctly, it was more complicated than Joomla, Mambo or Drupal, but that may have changed by now. Drupal and Joomla seem to be the two biggest dogs in the CMS arena right now. Still lots of people using PostNuke and some others though.

[RichB]

What does everyone think about this Joomla template? It's kind of edgy and I can use it for a few athletic orientated ideas. Will all the content and labels be able to be modified just by changing text in Joomla just like it would in a HTML template? I'm hoping that these templates aren't pieced together using a bunch of separate images which I find impossible to alter nicely.

http://www.joomlajet.com/preview/jj38/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=80

[PhilnCedarPark]

Looks good and should be very flexible to use. How did I check?

1. Turned off CSS (get FireFox and the developer toolbar) and saw that all but the top banner image were background images - and it is a tableless design. If something off-the-wall is needed a simple CSS modification will probably get you where you need.

2. Its Valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional (http://validator.w3.org/) which means its not going to break in weird ways, is search-engine friendly, and if you want to do some kewl edgy AJAXy stuff (or pay to have someone do it) it should work.

All kidding aside, folks should check out the following articles on the business case for web standards:

http://www.adaptivepath.com/publications/essays/archives/000266.php

http://icant.co.uk/webstandardsforbusiness/pmwiki.php

3. Validates CSS - http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ For the same reasons as above - plus again its usually cheaper and easier to tweak/modify

So good visual choice AND good structural choice. Not a huge fan of Joomla (sort of like going everywhere in a Winnebago - it has everything including a kitchen sink) but its doubtful anything will come up it can't handle, its solid, and there is a large developer community to turn to if you get serious success and need to upscale your functionality.

[RichB]

all the help is appreciated Phil