Exclusive Offer for Muse Website Design/Development

[dvdwlsh]

I'd like to make an offer to the musemakers represented here on the forum. I am in the process of creating my Muse Builder product to allow for rapid deployment of muse websites (both test and live). I'd like to validate the idea by working with some of you to create muse websites for your product.

**Please send a PM if interested**

[storm33229]

So did you not know about the no-advertising-rule or did you just totally disregard it?

[kamakiri]

He did make it to 46 posts before advertising, which is about 45 more than the rest of the spammers who come here.

[Marcie]

He did make it to 46 posts before advertising, which is about 45 more than the rest of the spammers who come here.

True. DVD, this is walking a fine line. I'll have to defer to the nightwatchman. Stay tuned.

[storm33229]

He did make it to 46 posts before advertising, which is about 45 more than the rest of the spammers who come here.
That might be the one thing he has going for him in this case. :rolleyes:

[jonparker83]

I've been spending so much less time on this forum recently, and this is exactly the sort of reason why.

That's a shame for everyone else as I've never been here to get advice for myself; rather give help where I can.

Whether it's newbies coming on here with posts like "too much information to post in this thread, PM me instead and we'll talk about [making me some money]" or blatant threads like this.

IMO, the fact that this thread has stayed here this long shows how things have changed around here.

How can the following be interpreted ANY other way??

If anyone is in need of a website to be developed for their muse, please contact me to discuss... I will charge for this, naturally.

I'll have my advert ready in case this one gets to stay here....

:D

[kamakiri]

I really do think we could use another section that members could post in for sales type stuff, then be mercenary in the others. Make it a rule that you have to have 40 posts before getting in the 'sales forum'. Everyone who has been here longer than a few weeks knows my opinion of the guys who come here flogging some service in their first posts.

On the flip side, I would like to be sold to by some of the regulars here. I want to know how you are doing it. Although I am not the target for most people here, the process of getting sold something (we all bought Tim's book for example), is just as important as the process of selling it.

Without being sold something, we really don't have a chance to look at the nuts and bolts of an evolving muse.

[clanshrapnel]

I really do think we could use another section that members could post in for sales type stuff, then be mercenary in the others. Make it a rule that you have to have 40 posts before getting in the 'sales forum'. Everyone who has been here longer than a few weeks knows my opinion of the guys who come here flogging some service in their first posts.



A separate section in the forum is a brilliant idea.

On a side note, it's funny how people are criticizing DVD's idea just because he is making money out of it. On the flip side, you have the large majority of posters asking for handouts and someone to basically do everything for them. DVD's product looks like it's the closest thing you're going to get (i.e., using his product will require the least amount of work).

DVD has contributed very much in the past, especially with one of the best posts on the forum (http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=1825&page=5) so far regarding the Audiomixologist creation process (have you seen a better post??) . I say let his post stay.

[dvdwlsh]

Wow. I just checked in to browse the forum and seem to have started a storm here.

clanshrapnel / kamakiri, thank you for the supportive, positive words about my prior posts. Much appreciated, feel free to contact me directly anytime for advice or feedback on your projects.


Whether it's newbies coming on here with posts like "too much information to post in this thread, PM me instead and we'll talk about [making me some money]" or blatant threads like this.


jonparker83, please be careful to not blindly equate me with trolling scammers that plague a forum. I find that insulting.

Listen, my intention was simple: I'm creating a product to help entrepreneurs develop, test and launch muses without the constant reinvention of the same technical wheels (see this thread (http://fourhourworkweek.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=2033)). I want to make sure my product provides real value based on real muse concepts. I'm trying to validate this and, at the same time, help you create your muse.

There is tremendous talent represented by select users on this forum (for example, BHOTR (http://fourhourworkweek.com/vBulletin/member.php?u=2752) probably knows more about SEO/SEM than anyone I've ever met.) This talent and expertise is meant to be shared and exchanged.

Feel free to delete this, I won't be offended. Just be careful not to set a precedent of immediately vilifying and purging things that hint of proposition -- when there is possibly value to be created for the community as a whole. We are all after the same thing friends, and we should support each other, not attack.

That said, I support the idea of a Service Exchange/Member Marketplace forum. Create some barrier to entry (for posting, not browsing) and watch as a real marketplace for talent emerges.

David

[blackhatontherocks]

Hm.
This is a though one.

I realise it's a fine line between a "no selling" policy and allowing "some" people to sell their stuff that in turn create a bandwagon of people wanting to advertise their services as well.

That said, I think The fact that people are sent to look at elance for outsourced website creation speaks volumes about certain things that are wrong with the "no sells ever" approach.

I fully understand the no affiliate rule.
I fully understand the "no selling your stuff in signatures" rule.
I fully understand that putting posts up that are essentially sales-letters is as ugly as it gets.

I don't get why someone with a proven track record of creating pretty high quality pages (and killer posts) can't say "hey folks, IF YOU'RE ALREADY LOOKING for someone to do your website 'n stuff, this is what I've done so far, I could do something similar for you, contact me if you like and by all means compare me to elance offers before you even think about choosing my stuff."

I would like the idea of a seperate forum (or even just a seperate thread, for that matter) to be opened where service offerings are allowed, but only for contributing people and on a personal-judgement by the mods-basis.

I'd also like the idea that anything that even remotely smells like salescopy still get's deleted regardless.

The distinction between selling services and selling products is a tough one, in this case. I'd personally vote that only services can be "sold", and of course only those kinds of services that are closely related to a product creation/licensing/affiliate marketing process.

Which narrows it down to webdesign, developement, writing salesletters, and seo/sem optimizing - but the latter I take with a grain of salt, mainly because it's hard to "outsource" fully and also because theres pretty much as much free advice out there as you need to get things rolling in regards to those subjects, and results are seldom tangible or even quickly measurable.

Webdesign and programming is probably the most important one, because there is only so much you can do to influence the outcome of an elance project beforehand.

So In conclusion, bulletin-board style "mentioning" (not hard advertising) of ones services should be somehow made possible for trusted members of this forum in my oppinion. Product selling should stay forbidden, as well as using any sales talk. Best realisation should be though a seperate forum or at least thread.

[Doreen]

The separate thread idea has worked well on other forums I participate in.

Outright spammers get moved there, and generally don't come back after their first post. Members who stick around for the long term can post updates on what they offer in their sales thread and not clutter up conversation.

It seems to be a lot easier than forums that take a hard line on never allowing any ads. (Especially the line between advertising and "critique my muse site" is pretty slim in practice...)

[FrozenCanuck]

For the fans of this site and the moderators,

I have no problem with what DVD did. He could have used less "selling" language, but he's offering to help us build muses faster, and in return, probably get testimonials for his site. This is a no-brainer.

DVD I'm going to contact you. I have already done my test but I love your audiomixologist site and need to re-vamp my site before launching.

Product SO CLOSE to being finished! Very exciting.

[Napoleon]

I have no problem with his offer. He's a guy that has contributed a lot to this forum but he definitely shouldn't charge us for letting us test his muse builder.

[kamakiri]

I would like to echo Napoleon here. DVD - You should take every opportunity here you can and design your first muses for free. Get experience, and learn what can hang you up in the future. I would pretty much go ballistic if you screwed up my site, were unreasonably delayed, or any number of other problems that could potentially come up while designing a muse if I had my cash on the line. But if the service was free, then we could both use it as a learning process. With only your own 3 sites to sit back on you don't have much experience working with others here, not to say that is bad at all, but I know I am a PITA to work with, so there is a high chance others might be as well.

I also think that in designing muses/sites for others here on the 4HWW will be a challenge in focus and definition for you. The company that designed my site was pretty much mercenary in getting what they needed to get the job done. Getting good at working with people might just be more important than the actual design itself.

[jonparker83]

jonparker83, please be careful to not blindly equate me with trolling scammers that plague a forum. I find that insulting.

Did you actually read my post? :rolleyes:

My point is that there are *plenty* of people who make a living on here selling services that many 4HWWers would benefit from.

But because there is a no selling rule, they don't go around blatenty advertising their services like you have done.

I'm not disputing that the usefulness of your posts or the quality of your work; just the fact that you didn't stick to the rules.

Yes, it may benefit people to use the services of other 4HWW forum members instead of the hit-and-miss world of elance - I TOTALLY agree with that.

But when did it become so difficult for those people to send a PM?

If someone wants your services, they'll enquire about them privately.

There is no need for adverts.

[webgal]

Well, I have to say that others have contacted me to do what DVD has done and I have said no. So it's really not fair and already I've gotten PMs to that effect. I respect that DVD has made such valuable posts and do not put him in the category of a spammer. But until and unless we have a separate thread for these offers, I don't think we can simply allow one person to make offers of this nature. I'll PM him and give him the opportunity to edit his own post as he has earned that right.

[Marcie]

Yes, please edit the original post, DVD, Tim looked at it and said "overt selling is not allowed." His forum, his rules. Thanks for your contributions to this forum!

[dvdwlsh]

No worries, I'll take care of the edit shortly.