in europe for 3+ months

[Drewkerr]

Hey guys,
I will be traveling to Europe, mainly Italy the begining of next year. My question is if you plane ticket shows you flying into Rome and then flying out of Rome more than 3 months/ 90 days am I going to run into a problem with customs.

The reason i ask is the stay can be up to 90 days without a visa. I am planning on staying in Rome with several trips to Western Europe but at the intial entry into the country all it will show is a plane ticket in and out over 90 days?


Drew

[read]

What problem with customs will you run into?

[Vagabond]

I dont think you would, a lot of people travel in and out of one city but travel around Europe.

[Webzu]

You could...most countries like my home country Costa Rica, let tourists stay up to 90-days without a Visa after that you need to leave or get a visa.

Here are the rules for U.S. citizens visiting Italy...

ITALY - *Passport required. Visa not required for tourist or business stays up to 90 days. (**90-day period begins when entering Schengen countries). Those staying for more than eight days, are required to register with local police and obtain a permit to stay (permesso di soggiorno). Tourists may request an application for the permit from one of 14,000 national post offices (Poste Italiane). The kit must then be returned to one of 5,332 designated Post Office acceptance locations. Failure to obtain the permit of stay within eight days is punishable by fine. Permit requires 1 completed form, complete photocopy of passport, proof of sufficient funds, photos, copy of insurance policy, onward/return ticket, and a fee. For stays longer than 90 days, employment, or study, a visa is required and must be obtained in advance. Americans who intend to reside in Italy must also, within 20 days of receiving a permesso di soggiorno (permit of stay), go to the local Vital Statistics Bureau, Anagrafe of the Comune, to apply for a certificate of residence (Certificato di Residenza). It generally takes one to two months to receive the certificate.

For additional information, consult the Embassy of Italy, 3000 Whitehaven St, NW, Washington, DC 20008 (202/612-4400/21) or nearest Consulate General: CA (310/820-0622 or 415/931-4924), FL (305/374-6322), TX (713/850-7520/1), IL (312/467-1550/1), MA (617/722-9201/2), MI (313/963-8560), NY (212/737-9100), PA (215/592-0079) or TX (713/850-7520). Embassy website: http://www.ambwashingtondc.esteri.it/ambasciata_washington. Italian immigration website: http://www.portaleimmigrazione.it/.

[Drewkerr]

Webzu,
Thats what I read on the state website, by reading:
Visa not required for tourist or business stays up to 90 days

I am worried that a custom official will see that I will be in the country for 90 days and stop me from entering. (ie they look at the plane ticket and see me not leaving for more than 90 days.)

[Marcie]

Um, sounds like you need to get a visa and you'll be covered?

[read]

I agree. There has to be some system for people staying more than 90 days. It sounds like it's just a matter of getting the right paperwork.

[Webzu]

Webzu,
Thats what I read on the state website, by reading:
Visa not required for tourist or business stays up to 90 days

I am worried that a custom official will see that I will be in the country for 90 days and stop me from entering. (ie they look at the plane ticket and see me not leaving for more than 90 days.)

If you left the country before the 90 days and you re-enter it you're fine. Even if you spent 200 days in Europe using Rome as your hub but if you're coming and going to other countries from Rome you should be fine. Every time you leave and re-enter you'll get a new entry stamp on your passport. They might get suspicious and ask why you're coming and going.

If you stay over the 90 days and you're trying to leave you should be fine since what they would do is kick you out anyway.

If you plan on staying in Italy without leaving for 90+ days than I would get the Visa which is required by law.

[JSimpson]

I studied a semester abroad in italy in Castiglione Fiorentino, you should visit it was one of the best "small true medieval towns". Anyway one thing to remember is that if you stay in one location for more than a week or two your required to register yourself with the local police department. Being a student our university has that drilled into us, though how many people do and don't register is something I'm not familiar with.

[waterboy]

Every time you leave and re-enter you'll get a new entry stamp on your passport.

Not true anymore. Since it's the EU, moving between countries is like moving between states in the U.S. You pass a sign that says "Welcome to France/Germany/etc", in the native language of course :) , and nothing more.

I was in Europe for 3 weeks last December and the only place where I went through customs, as we're used to when entering/leaving the US, was going between England and France. Switzerland has customs but it was more like going to Canada...we were waved through without question.

Lookup an Italian embassy in the US and give them a call. In this case, it's better to err on the safe side and not have to ask forgiveness.

[victorialine]

This topics touches on an issue that I'm trying to get the answe for. SO if I want to be in Italy for more than 90 days, I need a visa. Now, most of the visa requirements look at either:
1. you are going to be employed, or
2. you are wealthy enough to live there.
and by wealthy, they mean wealthy - not just that you have enough money to cover you for a few months.

SO, there does not seem to be an exception in the immigration laws for any country where you show that you are still doing your job "back home" to earn income, but you want to live there while you are doing your job.

Does anybody have any experience with getting a visa using that as a justificiation??

I know that the countries want to keep people from coming in and being a drain on the economy, but it seems like this would add to the economy - but there are no provisions for it.....

Any advice???

Victorialine

[TimW]

Go in as a tourist for 90 days. Leave. Come back.

The fact you're Europe means you can go visit another country merely by hopping on a train for a couple house. Try that while living in Japan. :)

[lifeisgood]

It's not as easy as TimW says, it's been said before, if you go to another country it's like traveling from state to state in the US. I think you need a Schengen Visa, it's a visa that allows you to travel through all the Schengen countries (most of the EU).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement

I'm european so I'm not sure about the process of getting one, or for what time span it's valid.

[kamakiri]

Go in as a tourist for 90 days. Leave. Come back.

The fact you're Europe means you can go visit another country merely by hopping on a train for a couple house. Try that while living in Japan. :)

That trick might have worked in the Reagan administration, but sadly those days are over. Many people took the jet ferry to Korea from Japan to 'renew' their 90 day tourist visa, but now you get the third degree. The EU is basically passport-less now as well, that 90 day visa is valid for the EU, not just Italy. Two of my friends got deported from the US using that trick (they took a bus to Mexico for 3 days and came back in to get another tourist visa).

The problem with leaving and coming back is that you look suspicious. 99% of the population is not on permanent vacation, and six months is just about permanent vacation. The more likely explanation, on the part of the immigration office, is that you are a poor foreigner working illegally.

In Japan and Korea, it is scab English teachers doing 'private lessons'. In Europe it is Africans doing any menial job, and even in Minnesota it is Mexicans doing dishes.

The chances of you getting a visa to do what you described are slim and none. Basically if you are working, they want you taxed. In Japan, the example I know best, you can set up a company and sponsor yourself, but the requirements are very stiff, including establishing a local company with at least $30,000 paid in capital. I am sure Italy has provisions for that same kind of Investor Visa, but nothing like the 'I want to slack off in Italy 4 Hour Work Weeking it' visa.

[FreeDeez]

Like it's been said, your 90 days is good for all Schenegen countries. You get 90 days in a 180 day period. If you can prove that you've left the Schenegen countries and gone into Eastern Europe or the UK, that is you haven't used up all your allotted 90 days even though it's been more than 90 days since you landed, you'll be alright. See what I mean? You can go to Italy for 30 days, leave for Istanbul for 60, come back to Italy and still have 60 days left on your visa. But you have to leave the Schenegen territories.

But it doesn't really matter anyway. For the most part, passport officials don't do much about Americans overstaying their visas. I flew into France in September a couple of years ago and then left in March. Nearly 3 months with an expired tourist stamp. No one cared in the least. If something were to happen, look very shocked and explain to them how you've been out of Italy for some time. Play dumb and get flustered. Speak terrible Italian. You'll be alright.

[FreeDeez]

In Japan and Korea, it is scab English teachers doing 'private lessons'.

From my experience, most of the illegal teachers in Korea aren't teaching private lessons, at least not exclusively, they are working illegally for private institutions who don't bother to sponsor their teacher for a visa. Granted it could be that their teacher doesn't meet the qualifications the Korean government has set, but in my case, my boss was too f-ing lazy to get off his ass for 2 months to get my paperwork sorted.

A whole lot of otherwise legal teachers teach illegal private lessons and don't have to leave the country every 90 days or 180 days.

Why scab?

Having been an illegal worker in more than one country, I think it's an inevitable part of the modern world. People want to go to new places to start a new life or to have wild international adventures or to survive; paperwork and red-tape make it very difficult, sometimes impossible to do that. The human spirit will not be deterred by man's fictitious creations, i.e. that this part of the world is MINE and people from that part of the world can't come here.

[kamakiri]

But it doesn't really matter anyway. For the most part, passport officials don't do much about Americans overstaying their visas.

In Japan, they take you to immigration jail, and you get to spend some there until you can pay the fines. You miss your flight and usually end up with another $2,500 airline bill to boot. As a visa violator, you also get to NEVER come back to Japan on any visa.

In the UK they deport you on your own buck.

Overstaying your visa has some very serious consequences, and taking advice like this is more than likely to get you in an immigration holding cell than anything. Not something you would want to try at all.

Having been an illegal worker in more than one country, I think it's an inevitable part of the modern world...sometimes impossible... The human spirit will not be deterred by man's fictitious creations....

Why in the world would anyone want to take the advice of an illegal alien? Facing the very real prospect of going to jail, will break any human spirit, unless you are Viktor Frankl. If getting a visa is impossible, then it is impossible for a reason. You might be trying to justify your actions in your own mind Free, but endorsing the practice is just poor advice on way too many levels.

[FreeDeez]

Sorry, I didn't specify that I was talking about Europe in regards to the passport officials. Although there are reprecussions, from my experience and others that I've heard and read about, it's not a serious issue, most of the time. I'm not suggesting it's gospel, just a very strong tendency.


Why in the world would anyone want to take the advice of an illegal alien? Facing the very real prospect of going to jail, will break any human spirit, unless you are Viktor Frankl. If getting a visa is impossible, then it is impossible for a reason. You might be trying to justify your actions in your own mind Free, but endorsing the practice is just poor advice on way too many levels.

I wasn't giving anyone advice about working illegally. The topic came up. I made a comment from my own experience. The end.

And i'm certainly not justifying my actions in my own mind. I'm very comfortable with the path life has given me. It's not always prim and proper, but...c'est la vie.

Again, why scab?

[wando]

Like it's been said, your 90 days is good for all Schenegen countries. You get 90 days in a 180 day period. If you can prove that you've left the Schenegen countries and gone into Eastern Europe or the UK, that is you haven't used up all your allotted 90 days even though it's been more than 90 days since you landed, you'll be alright. See what I mean? You can go to Italy for 30 days, leave for Istanbul for 60, come back to Italy and still have 60 days left on your visa. But you have to leave the Schenegen territories.

But it doesn't really matter anyway. For the most part, passport officials don't do much about Americans overstaying their visas. I flew into France in September a couple of years ago and then left in March. Nearly 3 months with an expired tourist stamp. No one cared in the least. If something were to happen, look very shocked and explain to them how you've been out of Italy for some time. Play dumb and get flustered. Speak terrible Italian. You'll be alright.

From my European experience, this is the most sound advice here.

Indeed, if every controller played by the rules, they would make the calculation to check whether you overstayed 90 days in a 180 days period.

I am not sure if you have to STAY OUT during 180 days or if you can stay 90 days INSIDE the 180 period. My understanding is the second one, just like FreeDeez. but even the first option is possible to manage.

This can be achieved by staying 90 days in Schengen (not necessarily 90 consecutive days, as FreeDeez explained), 90 days in Croatia and 90 days in Cyprus. I am taking Croatia and Cyprus as easy and nice European examples. Check the list at the Wikipedia or a more official source as this is always changing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement

The matter of the fact is that even though airport databases are properly connected (and probably the major roads as well), they are NOT going to make the calculation.

However, my guess is that when you play dumb, you may look nervous and this may raise suspicion in the case they start to interrogate you. The best thing is to have been through the 90 days in Schengen and then stay out using that system. So you have no reason to lie.

Notice that sometimes you may have been legit in the country and even then get interrogation when you are leaving. This happened to me in Croatia. Border control officers made a long questioning of why I was in Croatia, coming from where, going to where, how many days, what I do for a living, who I know in the country, asking me to open my luggage etc etc. It was stressful but a very rich learning experience.

Similar things happened also in Switzerland and Bulgaria. It is a numbers game. If you cross many times, you can expect to be caught, no matter how business-in-suits or rich-tourist you may look. So it is always good to have clean papers and a clear story to tell.

[Dantplayer]

As you go from one country to another you'll often have your passport stamped, which serves as proof too.

[webgal]

That trick might have worked in the Reagan administration, but sadly those days are over.

Ouch. TimW, Kamakiri is calling you OLD! If I were you, I'd put out an APB for citizens arrest.

Good info here you guys. I wasn't aware of all this new travel info either. The last time I traveled to Europe was before 9/11 but AFTER the Regan administration. I think the dollar and euro are more balanced lately, too. Of course, I've not checked today and it seems we are in a period of wild fluctuations.

[blackhatontherocks]

Errm. I'm from germany, so I'm obviously no expert on the papers you guys get when you try to visit europe in terms of visa, etc.

What I do know is that unless you fly across the border, no one ... and I mean NO ONE, unless you look like you're smuggling dope ... will check you if you're going by car between countrys in western europe. You'll only ever get noticed if you leave the western area into non-euro countries or if you take an airplane to change countrys. Not that I'd encourage you to stay longer than you're allowed to... I'm just saying...

[wando]

NO ONE, unless you look like you're smuggling dope ... will check you if you're going by car between countrys in western europe.

That's right - just notice that as Switzerland is not Schengen, you may be checked. This happened to me - only regular docs checking, no need to open car.

I believe this may also happen in Liechtenstein.

Another heavy check (opening bags etc) happened in Croatia.

p.s. I do NOT look like smuggling dope :cool: - the fact is that I just cross the borders way too much. So sooner or later this type of thing happens.

[MuseBuilder]

Hey guys,
I will be traveling to Europe, mainly Italy the begining of next year. My question is if you plane ticket shows you flying into Rome and then flying out of Rome more than 3 months/ 90 days am I going to run into a problem with customs.

The reason i ask is the stay can be up to 90 days without a visa. I am planning on staying in Rome with several trips to Western Europe but at the intial entry into the country all it will show is a plane ticket in and out over 90 days?


Drew
Drew,

Congrats on your new LifeStyle Design!

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As I mentioned, I have one Muse up and running (30 sales per month), and one that should be finished by Mid-Dec.

As I mentioned, I am eager to compensate you anyway possible. Just looking for more wisdom and knowledge.

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Thanks and be well...

P.S. More than anything else I am interested in listening to your story of success.