Help me Analyze the Results of my Muse Dry Test

[RichB]

Alright, so this isn't going so well.

My muse idea was for a visualization program for triathletes. It could be used by any athlete really, but that's a niche I'm familiar with.

It's been 5 days, and I've had 4 ads running. I've had 11,400 impressions and 37 clicks for a CTR of .32, and no "sales".

So now I know one of a few things:
1) There is no desire for the product.
2) All four of my ads are written that poorly as to generate that bad of a CTR.
3) Or in addition to one of the above, once they get to my page there's no desire to purchase. Only a handful proceed to the pricing page so even if price is the factor I'm still not doing well.

At this point, do I cut my losses and find another muse or do I try different ads? With a CTR that rough I'm leaning towards just throwing the idea out and trying something else entirely. Although with a CTR that low I've only spent $18.00 on AdWords and could play around a bit more.

At least I didn't develop a product yet!

[RichB]

Looks like I had 15 people drop at the pricing page, if they would have purchased it may have been ok but if I need to drop my price too low it won;t be worth doing. It's $29.99 now.

[Vacman]

RichB,

I'm no expert (yet!) :) on this topic, but I'm assuming that there is no real clear cut or easy answer to your situation.

A .32 CTR is not too hot.

So there may be a demand for your product but the "sales copy" or ad you were displaying and the corresponding "sales copy" on your main page may not have been compelling enough to move people to buy, even if your concept is good.

37 clicks is way too small of a sample to base any decisions off of.

I'd think you'd need at least 200 clicks.

Many people only get a conversion rate of 1% when they have a fairly good site and compelling sales copy.

I'm sure you can do better than 1%, but I also doubt you've "optimized" your results yet, so you should expect lower than normal conversions.

One thing to try and get your CTR up is to A/B split test your ads.

One little word, or phrase can make a huge difference in your CTR.

So try having Google alternate two of your ads back to back.

Over a little while see which ad is performing better and then copy that ad and then tweak it a little. Keep the ad that is doing well running and test the other newer one against it, if the newer one does better then delete the old one and copy your new one again and tweak it a little.

Keep repeating the process until your CTR climbs up little by little.

Also a good trick is to take one of your most popular key words and put that in the title.

So if you are bidding on Visualization, then make sure that is in your headline.

Google likes that.

Anyhow, this is a little bit of a cluttered post, but bottom line:

Keep testing, I don't think 37 clicks is nearly enough data to base a decision on.

It's not over yet!! :)

Keep pluggin!

[Marcie]

Hi Rich - Ack - I am frustrated along with you! I am wondering about your keywords maybe...and honestly, I was thinking you should try raising your price to increase perceived value. Remind me, was it a CD???

[RichB]

Thanks.

I've got 4 ads cycling since the beginning to judge the best copy. I also have the dominant keyword in the ad, all to no avail.

I know 37 is too small to base anything on, but if I can only get 200 clicks a month an a conversion rate of1%, it's not worth my time.

Maybe I can monkey with the ad copy and see, I'm not getting enough clicks to know about my site copy yet, although with 50 clicks and 18 proceeding to the pricing page, I think that's a good sign.

My product is already 30% more than the competitors I've found. I think much more would be almost absurdly expensive, but again, if I had more clicks to test different price points I would, but I don't.

My product is a mp3 download, there's no need for and I see no need to deal with manufacturing if I can avoid it.

I think I'll rewrite my ads and give it another week and see how it goes, if it still sucks I'll abandon the product assuming the market doesn't demand it and move on.

[Vacman]

RichB,

Sounds like you're doing a great job!

I've heard that rotating 4 ads is not as effective as rotating 2 ads.

And you can actually check a setting to "rotate the ads evenly" if you don't do that then Google automatically puts preference to the ad that is doing the best and shows that one more often.

If you aren’t already getting a good CTR that can actually work against you, so you want to make sure that they are being equally rotated.

It's just a bit of a trial and error game.

They say "Marketing is testing" and that seems to hold pretty true.

When I tested my muse it took me probably 20 tries to get my CTR from about .35% to 1.8%, I'm sure if I tweaked it more I could have hit a higher number, but I stopped the test at that point.

I'm sure with a little trial and error you can bring yours up too.

Good luck!

[Marcie]

I just want to mention, FWIW, I have a store on cafepress and the sales seem to come in groups. I don't know if it's the moon or what ;) just wanted to say keep your chin up!

[Marcie]

I was thinking, does that CTR include the content network????

[RichB]

Wow, thanks everyone.

I did switch it to rotate ads evenly but I see one ad vastly outperforming so I'll remove the others.

I disabled content network because I was told you don't get clicks and it drives down your CTR so your position drops. Think I should turn it on?

Today I have a second muse out there, a strength training program for triathletes, we'll see how that does with my new education.

I appreciate the advice, I'll try anything, to me these early muses are an education.

[Marcie]

Well, right now I am getting all my clicks from the content network since Google shut off most of my keywords :mad: It does drive down your CTR but I am only counting CTR from searches, anyway, which is why I asked. Yeah, that's not the greatest CTR just from searches :( I am by no means an expert but if you want to send me your keyword list I am curious...

~Marcie

[RichB]

Here's my keywords from my visualization program:
beginner triathlon training ** 0.50
ironman triathlon training ** 0.50
ironman triathlon training program ** 0.50
ironman triathlon training programs ** 0.50
training for a triathlon ** 0.50
training for triathlon ** 0.50
triathalon training ** 0.50
triathlon and training ** 0.50
triathlon training ** 0.50
triathlon training books ** 0.50
triathlon training dvd ** 0.50
triathlon training for beginners ** 0.50
triathlon training guide ** 0.50
triathlon training half ironman ** 0.50
triathlon training plan ** 0.50
triathlon training plans ** 0.50
triathlon training program ** 0.50
triathlon training programs ** 0.50
triathlon training tips ** 0.50
triathlons training ** 0.50

And from my new strength training program:
12 week triathlon training
bay area triathlon club
beginner triathlon
beginner triathlon training
beginning triathlon training
best triathlon training
boulder triathlon club
chicago triathlon clubs
duathlon training
first triathlon training
golden gate triathlon club
half ironman training
half ironman triathlon
half marathon training
half triathlon training
in training triathlon
iron man training
iron man triathlon
iron triathlon training
ironman training
ironman triathlon training
ironman triathlon training plan
ironman triathlon training program
ironman triathlon training programs
ironman triathlon training schedule
marathon training
mark allen triathlon training
mini triathlon training
mini triathlon training schedule
mountain bike triathlon
off road triathlon
off road triathlon training
off season triathlon training
online triathlon training
riathlon training log
strength training for triathlon
team in training triathlon
training for a mini triathlon
training for a triathlon
training for a triathlon beginner
training for first triathlon
training for mini triathlon
training for triathlon
training for triathlons
triathalon training
triathalon weight training
triathelon training
triathlete training
triathlon
triathlon and training
triathlon base training
triathlon books
triathlon clubs
triathlon coaching
triathlon fitness
triathlon gear
triathlon nutrition
triathlon program
triathlon strength training
triathlon strength training program
triathlon swim training
triathlon train
triathlon training
triathlon training basics
triathlon training beginners
triathlon training bible
triathlon training bike
triathlon training book
triathlon training books
triathlon training camp
triathlon training camps
triathlon training center
triathlon training clubs
triathlon training coach
triathlon training diet
triathlon training dvd
triathlon training for beginners
triathlon training for women
triathlon training groups
triathlon training guide
triathlon training guides
triathlon training half ironman
triathlon training hawaii
triathlon training journal
triathlon training logs
triathlon training nutrition
triathlon training plan
triathlon training plans
triathlon training program
triathlon training programme
triathlon training programmes
triathlon training programs
triathlon training running
triathlon training schedule
triathlon training schedules
triathlon training series
triathlon training software
triathlon training swimming
triathlon training tips
triathlon training workouts
triathlon weight lifting
triathlon weight training
triathlon weight training program
triathlon workout
triathlon workouts
triathlons training
triatholon training
triatlon training
ultimate guide to weight training for triathlon
weight training for triathlon
winter triathlon training
women triathlon training
women's triathlon training
xterra triathlon training
ymca triathlon club
ymca triathlon training

[jetpacklife]

I've had a few problems with the google content network (10 clicks from same IP).. the rates are lot enough, that it didn't kill me.

I am a triathlete, so, I'd certainly be interested in your product if you make it!

[RichB]

Well I've ran about a half dozen ad variations and changed pricing up and down, and so far the best I can do is a CTR of .36 with my best ad. I've had no orders and 47 clicks from 13,000 impressions.

Not so good.

Besides continuing to tweak my ads and copy, I can't think of what else to do. Regardless of tweaking, I don't think I'm going to triple my conversion rate and even if I did if there's no orders it's kind of moot.

I don't want to beat a dead horse or try to get the idea to force fit. I think it's time to abandon this one and limit my expenditure on AdWords. I think my time is better spent on the other muse I have testing which has not had any orders either but but a CTR of .88 and 2X the clicks in 1/5 the time.

Anyone disagree or do I cut this loose?

[Marcie]

Maybe try getting rid of the keywords that aren't getting any click throughs and spending more on the ones that are? I just looked up 'triathalon training' by itself on Google's Estimator tool and you should be getting that many clicks from that keyword alone (according to them) - I would hope it would be close...:/

[Vagabond]

Well I've ran about a half dozen ad variations and changed pricing up and down, and so far the best I can do is a CTR of .36 with my best ad. I've had no orders and 47 clicks from 13,000 impressions.

Not so good.

Besides continuing to tweak my ads and copy, I can't think of what else to do. Regardless of tweaking, I don't think I'm going to triple my conversion rate and even if I did if there's no orders it's kind of moot.

I don't want to beat a dead horse or try to get the idea to force fit. I think it's time to abandon this one and limit my expenditure on AdWords. I think my time is better spent on the other muse I have testing which has not had any orders either but but a CTR of .88 and 2X the clicks in 1/5 the time.

Anyone disagree or do I cut this loose?


Hey Rich,

I wonder if you would do better using keywords that target people searching for something closer to what youre selling. I feel like people using those keywords are probably looking more for nutrition and physical training regiments. Perhaps you would have better luck using words like "motivation" "mental preparation" or something along those lines... or add those in to your keywords and see what response you get.

Also, whatre some examples of the latest ad copy that youre using? You mentioned one was vastly outperforming the others.

[RichB]

Here's my best producing ad:
Triathlon Training
Breakthrough mental training
techniques used by Olympians
www.braincardio.com

I initially was going to target keywords more focused on the product, but the volume was too low. Maybe I make it less targeted to triathletes and just do athletics overall?

[Vagabond]

Here's my best producing ad:
Triathlon Training
Breakthrough mental training
techniques used by Olympians
www.braincardio.com

I initially was going to target keywords more focused on the product, but the volume was too low. Maybe I make it less targeted to triathletes and just do athletics overall?

Yeah I'm thinking or even if not athletics overall, including marathoners or other extreme types of activities. Maybe put something in the ad that directly relates to helping them in a specific way.

Breakthrough Mental Training
Take your training to a new level! OR Increase Mental Toughness!
Used by Marathoners, Triathletes and Olympians!

[Webzu]

I think you should tweak your website. Your order page isn't even secure many people won't give you their credit card info on an unsecured order page.

I suggest keeping the site simple black font on white background with an attention grabbing headline.

Your copy has some typos and errors like:

Scott Hamilton hs said that in the Olympics

Sorry, I just wanted to point out those couple things I noticed that might prevent people from ordering.

[RichB]

I've taken the advice and have been redesigning my page for my muse.
There's really 2 separate pages, the first is my sales page which I'm hoping will entice people to order. If they want to order, they are taken to a separate page to sign up and access my muse.

In short, I'm offering a training program for triathletes. The training plans, forum, billing, registration, and whatnot is all handled via a 3rd party web app, hence my need for the 2nd page.

The first page is being created using a Joomla CMS at the recommendation of some users here whose opinion I respect. I had some hiccups with the template I choose not being developed as configurable as I had hoped, but it's coming along.

Why not just use the 2nd page? Well I don't think the page the 3rd party offers me if quite as nice and slick as my Joomla page will be. If things take off I can certainly spend the $$$ on doing everything in my own site, but there's some awful nice features in the 3rd part app I'd like to utilize and not spend the money to create myself.

The first page is in dev at
www.trimuscle.com
I haven't built any content yet.

The second page will be at http://fitnessgenerator.com/trainerhome.asp?uname=trimuscle

I think the two pages will need to be a little bit redundant as they will both be doing the job of selling, but I'll be using the 1st as a detailed sales pitch with tesimonials, research, etc. The 2nd will be short and to the point, assuming users got there through the link on my 1st page.

I'd love critiques, especially of the 2nd page, since I'm kind of stuck on what else to put in there, if anything.

[cartoonfan1983]

You know this whole thing about secure order pages.... I think it's very important,but I was hanging out at www.pxmethod.com (http://www.pxmethod.com) earlier today and I noticed when you click on Tim's order page, it's not secure either....

See here...http://www.brainquicken.com/pxcheckout.html

Don't you guys think this is a little odd?

[RichB]

When you click his Order Now button you get an error page from aweber, not any credit card processor which like I would expect.

I would think he's way past dry testing, perhaps he put that up as an example for the book only?

But anyway back to my sites...

[Vagabond]

any updates??

[RichB]

yeah, I just posted this a couple hours ago, both sites are new and I'm looking for feedback.

[captaink]

I just like the one with the back view on the top better.

However, the sales button is "below the fold" meaning that I have to scroll down to see it. This will cost you a lot of clicks right there.

Also, the text on it

Better than
Money Back guarantee

Does not make sense.

::captaink::