Muse Creation - dietary supplement

[HybridSwimmer]

Hello everyone,

I read 4HWW when it first hit the shelves, and while it has taken a long time for inspiration to strike, I've finally found my muse. Contrary to Tim's advice, I'm going into the supplement business. I have my idea defined and my target audience in my sights.

Right now I'm searching for companies (http://www.foodconsultant.biz/) that offer dietary supplement product development services. I've found a few that I like and right now I'm shopping around for rates. Does anyone have any experience with this that can suggest companies to work with or not to work with?

Thank you and I would greatly appreciate any advice you can give.

[kamakiri]

Make a plan.

Put up a web site to test your plan.

Then, start looking for a manufacturer.

[mad111]

I'm not disagreeing with you, Kamakiri, but it's particularly challenging with a nutritional supplement for a couple of reasons (and I'm going to do something along those lines, so I'm all ears as far as ideas go).

To put up a website selling and expounding a nutritional supplement you need:

(a.) A detailed, finalized ingredient list / formulation. For someone buying a nutritional supplement, this is going to be a huge part of the education and selling process, so you can't really just "fudge it" and throw something up there.

(b.) A visual image of the bottle/container with the label/logo on it. You can't really just show a blank bottle of pills.

Any thoughts on overcoming these two things in order to do a "test" website?

Make a plan.

Put up a web site to test your plan.

Then, start looking for a manufacturer.

[HybridSwimmer]

Dito to what mad111 just said.

[JFrenzel]

Perhaps visiting a forum with similar people.... : )


Just my thoughts

Jose

[storm33229]

Perhaps visiting a forum with similar people.... : )


Just my thoughts

Jose
Or you could asksunday.

[froldt]

(a.) A detailed, finalized ingredient list / formulation. For someone buying a nutritional supplement, this is going to be a huge part of the education and selling process, so you can't really just "fudge it" and throw something up there.

(b.) A visual image of the bottle/container with the label/logo on it. You can't really just show a blank bottle of pills.

Any thoughts on overcoming these two things in order to do a "test" website?

(a.) Do you not have a detailed, finalized ingredient list / formulation? Or, you will before you try to market the product? While you can test without the product itself, you have to know how it is going to be made and be prepared to produce once it is time for that. This means that you could do the prep work (product list) and once you have the amount of orders that you need to get started, you can do so.

(b.) I am not familiar with the process/costs involved, but since you'll be paying someone to design a bottle/logo for your supplement, couldn't you go ahead and do that before you have the product? This way you could have a real bottle made for the pictures (even if you had to print the label yourself and glue it on a bottle).
This way, while it will cost you up front, you will be able to put the cost to good use if/when the product is up and running.

Just my $.02, and keep in mind that everything I know about supplements came from Tim's book. :D

[mad111]

Hi,

Regarding point (b.), that might be an option -- just paying a few bucks to have someone come up with a logo and label and slap it on a bottle for me.

Regarding point (a.), though, at least in my case, the answer is no. I have a general idea of some of the most key ingredients, but not the exact ratios and not necessarily all the ingredients. I'm going to work with a supplement manufacturing company on that -- some of them will consult with you and work with you regarding coming up with a formula that works, ingredients that don't interact badly, correct amount of each ingredient, etc., etc. I'm still looking into that and how much that consultation might cost, but perhaps I can spend the (hopefully not too large) necessary amount to come up with a final formula and than put up a test website.

Thanks for your help.

(a.) Do you not have a detailed, finalized ingredient list / formulation? Or, you will before you try to market the product? While you can test without the product itself, you have to know how it is going to be made and be prepared to produce once it is time for that. This means that you could do the prep work (product list) and once you have the amount of orders that you need to get started, you can do so.

(b.) I am not familiar with the process/costs involved, but since you'll be paying someone to design a bottle/logo for your supplement, couldn't you go ahead and do that before you have the product? This way you could have a real bottle made for the pictures (even if you had to print the label yourself and glue it on a bottle).
This way, while it will cost you up front, you will be able to put the cost to good use if/when the product is up and running.

Just my $.02, and keep in mind that everything I know about supplements came from Tim's book. :D

[kamakiri]

In order to live the 4HWW, you need to have sales. You need to think a bit differently than the normal 9-5er. You need to have a plan in place. Since you don't have a formula, my guess is that you don't have a business plan either? Without a destination, you can't be lost. I will say it again, your product doesn't matter! What matters is your ability to sell it. There are 1000 formulations for supplements out there, and the chances are that you will go with one and then switch it with your second and third production runs.


To put up a website selling and expounding a nutritional supplement you need:

(a.) A detailed, finalized ingredient list / formulation. For someone buying a nutritional supplement, this is going to be a huge part of the education and selling process, so you can't really just "fudge it" and throw something up there.

Here;s an ingredient list that is as good as any:
1. Energy 31 kJ/ 7 kcal
2. L-Tyrosine 900,00 mg
3. L-Glutamine 450,00 mg
4. Choline 270,00 mg
5. Ascorbic Acid 90,00 mg
6. Vitamin E 15,00 mg
7. Niacin Amide 27,00 mg
8. Selenium 60,00 µg
9. Calcium Pantothenate 9,00 mg
10. Vitamin D 3,00 mg
14. Vitamin A 2,40 mg
15. Vitamin B1 2,10 mg
16. Folic Acid 300,00 µg
17. Biotin 225,00 µg
18. Vitamin B12 1,50 µg

You won't be selling the product anyway, so you have no need of a strict ingredient list. Any with a broad range of ingredients will do fine. If you want to add energy, then add something like ginseng or caffeine. If another goal is your objective, then get a well researched ingredient that does that and add it into that mix.



(b.) A visual image of the bottle/container with the label/logo on it. You can't really just show a blank bottle of pills.

YOU HAVE TO DO THIS ANYWAY! Get it done now and save the step for later. Designing a logo in gimp or adobe illustrator isn't that hard, and there are literally thousands of places on the net where you can have it done cheaply. Need ideas? Go into any GNC or weight building shop.

It is far cheaper to have a logo designed first to test the water than to have 2,000 bottles of supplements made up (and then labeled......)

[Madmouse2]

I'm interested in a nutritional supplement, too. :) My idea is to take an awesome--but poorly marketed--supplement that I found and sell it under my own label. My question is:

Didn't Tim say it was illegal to take payment for something before you have it ready to go? Although the product might already be bottled, the manufacturer requires a minimum purchase of 1,000 bottles in order to do private labeling. Any thoughts on a way to get around this? (Establish my corporation in a country where this is not illegal? :) ) I can't afford to spend in excess of $14,000 to get this started (which is what I would have to do if I bought the stuff first and then tried to sell it.)

[kamakiri]

Didn't Tim say it was illegal to take payment for something before you have it ready to go?

Yes it is illegal, and it is called fraud. I am not recommending you do that by any means. Although it is pretty much a zero hour work week, jail is by no means an acceptable alternative.

Here is what you do:

1. Make a PLAN!
2. Make a site
3. Have an order form
4. Have a Pay be section, and let the customer choose visa, MC, or paypal.

When they chose a payment option, then they go to a screen telling them you are out of stock, and should be getting more product in the next 4-6 weeks. You can gauge the number of orders you would be getting by the number of people who were ready to pay by card or pay pal. Illegal? No, shady? possibly, but there is no better way to estimate how much product you can sell or the effectiveness of your adwords to draw paying customers.

Although the product might already be bottled, the manufacturer requires a minimum purchase of 1,000 bottles in order to do private labeling. Any thoughts on a way to get around this? (Establish my corporation in a country where this is not illegal? :) ) I can't afford to spend in excess of $14,000 to get this started (which is what I would have to do if I bought the stuff first and then tried to sell it.)

I haven't ever heard of a manufacturer requiring a bottle count. They all have a minimum tablet count though. You shouldn't need anywhere near $14,000 to start up your muse, and if that is your nest egg, then you should be spending even less. I don't know why Tim doesn't mention it more prominently, but you have to go into this with the mind set that you have a huge potential for failure. I need to go check again, but didn't Tim fail at least 3 times? I have had a few flops in the 5 digit range. Your chances of making it to the 4HWW# lifestyle on your first muse are probably about as good as you getting hit by lightening. Your second attempt is probably 30% chance of success, and it goes up a little bit every time you fail after that.

The sad thing is that most people never give themselves the chance to fail. Failure is perfectly fine, in fact you will learn more from a failure than a success 100% of the time, and every time you fail, you get one step closer to success.

[Madmouse2]

Thanks, Kamakiri, for reminding me that failure is a possibility that can't always be avoided! I guess the supplement thing shouldn't be the first muse I try, since I can't afford to lose that much money.

[kamakiri]

Thanks, Kamakiri, for reminding me that failure is a possibility that can't always be avoided! I guess the supplement thing shouldn't be the first muse I try, since I can't afford to lose that much money.

Not the case at all. I am saying you shouldn't go out and order a million tablets, not give up an idea. Go back and read my post. You can get a site up and running, and just going through the process will put you light years ahead of 90% of the other posters on this BBS. Ger a site up, and learn how to market it. It is a process you will need to go through for any muse.

[dlw]

guys... look at the site below for product development & quotations.
company is even covered by major media in South-East & East Asia!!

northridgelabs.net

[kamakiri]

Interesting first post. I can only guess that you work for Northridge or something?

[badhank]

In order to live the 4HWW, you need to have sales.
......

Didn't want to have to quote it all, but this is all gold, thank for the detailed outline. You sir are a champion.

[dlw]

Didn't want to have to quote it all, but this is all gold, thank for the detailed outline. You sir are a champion.

bad, are you being honest or sarcastic re: kama's post? can't tell since online conversations are just 1D & not 3D.

kama, yes i am. but so what. its just an option for those on this thread. feel free to go anywhere else to seek product development or quotations. this is a free world!

[nghs22]

bad, are you being honest or sarcastic re: kama's post? can't tell since online conversations are just 1D & not 3D.

kama, yes i am. but so what. its just an option for those on this thread. feel free to go anywhere else to seek product development or quotations. this is a free world!

badhank is ALWAYS sarcastic :)

[badhank]

i was being sincere.

in one post kamakiri answered many unspoken questions, and basically handed out a business starting point. i think that was very generous, refreshing, and eye opening. Definitely deserves some acknowledgment.

[HybridSwimmer]

I'd have to agree with badhank here, too. The plan is the most important part, which at this point I'm realizing means a lot of market research, narrowly and specifically defining the product's purpose, and reconciling the differences you find along the way. Am I missing anything there?

Thank you, kamakiri. I needed the kick in the ass :)

[dlw]

btw... nice to meet you guys!

i was being sincere.

in one post kamakiri answered many unspoken questions, and basically handed out a business starting point. i think that was very generous, refreshing, and eye opening. Definitely deserves some acknowledgment.

haha. is kama that well known for doing the opposite. :D

I'd have to agree with badhank here, too. The plan is the most important part, which at this point I'm realizing means a lot of market research, narrowly and specifically defining the product's purpose, and reconciling the differences you find along the way. Am I missing anything there?

Thank you, kamakiri. I needed the kick in the ass :)

SOME market research. don't go overboard or you'll likely not get started at all.

HSwim, don't forget Tim's great tip on doing something that you're already trained on. e.g. Tim's product was relevant to his diploma!

Sometimes we look all round when the answer is right under our noses.

[ytsirklin]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a supplement manufacturer. I have an ingredient list, just need to find someone to make these for me.

[webgal]

I think kamakiri knows as does the person who did moodwell.

And I have to agree with K. Plan it. Don't throw it up there hoping it will stick. But you'll avoid so many mistakes and redos and frustration if you take this step.

[Gunn]

Wow, lots of supplement muses....

Remember everyone, there are at least 20-30 contract manufacturers for supplements that I know of. Not one of them has a minimum run of less than $6k (including raw material, encapsulation, packaging, labeling and shipping), unless it is a private label supp.

Do some market research, do some testing, figure out a good plan of action. In the supplement world, PPC may not be your best bet.

If you still want a rec, I have one, you can PM me for it.

If you are looking to get a small run done ($2k or less) I might be able to help as well.

[dlw]

hey all...
page 2 of this thread contains one recommendation. ;)
credible media backing available, etc.

basically as with any quotations for anything... just find one that's trustworthy & submit a quote request.
it isn't exactly accurate to generalise it as "not one is less than $6k".


Wow, lots of supplement muses....

Remember everyone, there are at least 20-30 contract manufacturers for supplements that I know of. Not one of them has a minimum run of less than $6k (including raw material, encapsulation, packaging, labeling and shipping), unless it is a private label supp.

[jcpeden]

There are 1000 formulations for supplements out there, and the chances are that you will go with one and then switch it with your second and third production runs.


I don't quite understand this process; are you suggesting that he find a formulation and tweak it to suit his buyers?