Car and Ugh NO CAR!!!!!!

[JFrenzel]

Ok,

Following the last thread, here is my question to the experienced ones in this field. Can you do without a car in San Francisco and in San Diego?


I too am about to dump my car.



Cheers


Jose

[kamakiri]

Doesn't San Fran still have street cars? Nagasaki does, and I use them all the time. Like I mentioned before, I was happy as heck to drop my car. I am itching to buy another one now though. A little sporty convertible would just about hit the spot.

On the other hand, I did just buy a Honda Cub, the world's most gas efficient vehicle. A fill up costs me $6, and lasts for a week and a half.

[amucci]

Check out zipcars.com Good resource for people that only need a car occassionally.

[Krayzi]

I haven't spent much time in either of those two cities, but, I come from a much smaller city with fairly horrible public transportation, and I dumped my car two months ago. I have no regrets. So I can't see how it would be any harder in those larger centres.

I do have friends and family with cars that I can borrow if need a vehicle, which I have only done a couple of times. I have not taken any cabs.

I have saved an estimated $700/month. (I had a nice car, but $700/month is even nicer).

In other words, it works for me. But in your case, I guess it depends on your specific work situation, family/household needs, public transportation routes near your home, possible car pool arrangements, and, of course, the possibility ditching the office and working from home.

[nghs22]

www.zipcar.com

[Martini]

This is easy! I've been walking for three years!

I walk to and from work... unless someone I know who is off at the same time is heading my direction. It is a thirty minute walk during busy days or on Saturday and Sunday mornings I can get there in 20. I initially lost a ton of weight and have since maintained my weight. When I need to run errands, I borrow my mothers car for the day. I just fill it up with gas when I'm done and that usually doesn't cost to much. I figure it saves at least $200/mo by not driving a car -- money that goes towards my future muses. The drawbacks here... obvious depression. I often feel "stuck" but I take care of that by going out side for...a walk.. or to hang out with friends.

I live in a really small city compared to SF. I think you could easily do it. Just take the plunge.

[badhank]

I too am about to dump my car.


... Why? cars are great. I would hate to have to live without one

you will now take 20+ minutes to get to close destinations
you will have to make plans based on times that you can not control
you will double (or more) the time taken for simple errands like groceries
you will not be instantly available to loved ones in an emergency (knock on wood)
you will still have to pay close to the price of maintaining a vehicle if u choose to use bus/taxi
you will be unable to pick a girl up for a date, or drive her home

Those are a few quick ones off the top of my head, but the real issue is that for every benefit you can think of, you can do the exact same thing while still having a car.
When it comes to cost theres a *slight* difference, depending of course on insurance rates/driving history, efficiency of car, efficiency of driving style, how late the buses run in ur town/how often you go out at night (cabs are expense), etc, etc, etc...

[froldt]

JFrenzel,
If I remember correctly, you are about to move, correct? If so, you can definitely get by without a car, so long as you pick your location carefully. I am currently in Lexington, KY. Definitely a smaller city than SD or San Fran, but still a city. My apartment is very conveniently located. It is about 4 blocks from a main bypass, but I can't hear the traffic. It is about 3 blocks to a Kroger, less than two miles from a mall/Walmart/Target/Myers/bookstore/etc. I have a 3 mile-each-way commute to school, starting in the fall. I made the ride tonight and it took me 15 minutes, so add in some time for worse traffic and hitting more lights and it's maybe 25 minutes. I've driven it and it took 20-25 minutes. One of the local libraries is about 3 miles away. My friends live within 4-5 miles, so I can go visiting fairly easily.

So, distance-wise I can get just about everywhere that I need. I will be going to get a bike rack in the next couple of days, and I can strap a set of milk crates to the rack to carry groceries in. So I can carry enough groceries to last at least a couple of days. The grocery store is on the way to/from school.

badhank, I don't want to argue, just trying to offer a different point of view. I don't feel that my travel-time will greatly increase, as traffic can be horrible around here. I can get to the grocery store (due to close proximity) faster on bicycle than by car, definitely no slower. While I won't be available in emergency, they all live 4 hours away, so it will take me time to get there anyway. (Of course, my then-wife and I will have a car between us, so I will have a back-up.)
For the trips that I don't want to bike ride on, I can utilize the bus system. A pass for a year is less than I pay for insurance for two months. You can actually get a bicycle with an extended back wheel with a huge carry rack that a second person can sit on (I can't think of the name of the company for anything right now), so you can carry a passenger.

I realize that my close proximity makes a huge difference, but it is entirely dependent on what you are willing to do. There are people who ride 30-45 minutes to work each way, so it can be done.

... Why? cars are great. I would hate to have to live without one

you will now take 20+ minutes to get to close destinations
you will have to make plans based on times that you can not control
you will double (or more) the time taken for simple errands like groceries
you will not be instantly available to loved ones in an emergency (knock on wood)
you will still have to pay close to the price of maintaining a vehicle if u choose to use bus/taxi
you will be unable to pick a girl up for a date, or drive her home

Those are a few quick ones off the top of my head, but the real issue is that for every benefit you can think of, you can do the exact same thing while still having a car.
When it comes to cost theres a *slight* difference, depending of course on insurance rates/driving history, efficiency of car, efficiency of driving style, how late the buses run in ur town/how often you go out at night (cabs are expense), etc, etc, etc...

[JFrenzel]

Great Ideas, Thanks. My guess is that it really depends on the city... Anybody else have any other thoughts??


Jose

[webgal]

I don't know about SF. I can tell you that you'd be better off with no car in just about any college town unless you love parking tickets and getting towed.

[badhank]

frold if it works for you, it works for you, keep in mind i am also in sunny canada here, the weather JUST got nice last week,and it will stop bein nice in october at the latest.
even if i were in a warm weather climate, i would still use a car all the time tho.

[coollikeme]

I live in New Jersey trying to move to New York. Awesome public transportation. No need for a car, and if I did need one, I would rent one for a day or two. A city like SF you probably don't need a car.

[JFrenzel]

Thanks for the input everyone. This definitely helps me out. I am going to sell my car and invest in VISA and into my internet TV show.


Cheers

Jose

[froldt]

frold if it works for you, it works for you, keep in mind i am also in sunny canada here, the weather JUST got nice last week,and it will stop bein nice in october at the latest.
even if i were in a warm weather climate, i would still use a car all the time tho.

badhank, that would definitely make a difference. It's in the 95ish range, so miserable to ride in. By the time that school rolls around, when I'm out more, it should be cooler. To an extent I prefer the cold to the heat.

I grew up riding my mountain bike everywhere (never had a four-wheeler or anything), so I enjoy biking. Even when I do buy another vehicle, it will be a motorcycle (unless I need something different for a business), so I am pretty content to just tough out the weather.

[Krysta]

To an extent I prefer the cold to the heat.

Lol... a fellow Canadian here. Ever been outside at -45 C? I prefer heat.
;)

[badhank]

I have sworn that this is the last year i waste my life in a county that gets cold in the winter

[froldt]

Lol... a fellow Canadian here. Ever been outside at -45 C? I prefer heat.
;)

:D
Nope, I've only been down to about -26 C, and about -10 C camping. I can put on more clothes to stay warm, though, and there's only so many you can take off when it's hot. I get hot easily, and sweat a lot, so I don't like it too much.

Maybe a more accurate way of saying it would be that I prefer it comfortably cool. ;)

[JFrenzel]

Interesting answers on the forum :)


Jose

[badhank]

:D
Nope, I've only been down to about -26 C, and about -10 C camping. I can put on more clothes to stay warm, though, and there's only so many you can take off when it's hot. I get hot easily, and sweat a lot, so I don't like it too much.

Maybe a more accurate way of saying it would be that I prefer it comfortably cool. ;)

if i get cold i stay cold, if i'm warm i dont even notice.
I have a friend who claimed to like the cold as much as you, after a week in cuba with the boys (oh how i miss it) he didnt seem to appreciate the cold so much. maybe you should test ur theory with a tropical vacation, make sure to plan it during the winter so when you return you can appreciate the real juxtaposition between sand and snow.

[JFrenzel]

I think car or no car really comes down on your particular situation.


Best

Jose

[badhank]

I think car or no car really comes down on your particular situation.


Best

Jose

And I think it comes down to a financial question (u can have a car and choose to not use it, it just costs a little more)

[JFrenzel]

That is right. Depending also on factors like if you have a service company or what not. Doing estimates for clients does require a car.


Cheers

Jose

[froldt]

That is right. Depending also on factors like if you have a service company or what not. Doing estimates for clients does require a car.

My next vehicle is going to be a motorcycle. I don't know what equipment you need to do estimates, but I imagine that you could use a motorcycle or bigger moped, especially in Southern Cali. I met a guy here (in Kentucky) who does general repair work off of his moped. It runs 65, gets 70 mpg, carrying him and his three toolboxes (hand-sized toolboxes), so he could get on the interstate/highways and do his work. Sure beat working out of his gas-guzzling van! Insurance is generally cheaper, too!

[JFrenzel]

Good Thoughts, I will keep that in mind. Hopefully I won't have to be in the service industry for too much longer.


Cheers

Jose

[read]

I agree with the consensus that it depends on the person. Each of us has different circumstances...

[JFrenzel]

Also, one may consider whether they have kids or not. So many factors. A book should be written on whether to have a car or not. And the alternatives to being "Carless"


Scary!!!!! : )

Jose

[newday25k]

Another thing to think about, at least in SF is where are you living? If you are in the city, marin, or the east bay (berkely, oakland), you should be fine with public transportation, but if you are on the peninsula (anywhere south of SFO) the public transportation gets more cumbersome. BART is excellent where it runs, but it doesn't run everywhere. I had a job in Redwood City for a while and even though I only lived 7 miles away in Belmont, I needed a car to get to my office unless I wanted to spend more than 2 hours on the train and shuttles or walking/biking each way (i.e., the peninsula is way more conservative about funding public transp than the city). If you don't have those workplace constraints and/or you live near an urban center, you should be fine. You can even get to fairly remote places outside Sacramento on the train.

I don't know about San Diego...


I think the challenge (at least for me) comes down to the convenience that Hank alludes to. Although I choose not always to use my car, ie., I ride my bike, walk, carpool, etc, I have not gotten past my perception of my freedom of having a car, IF I feel NEED IT.

I also, don't live near any family members, and don't feel comfortable asking my friends to borrow their cars, so the autonomy is still important to me (I may need to get over that at some point....), but if that is not an issue for you, then GO FOR IT... you can always buy another car if you don't like it... so why not try it????

Has anyone experimented with a communal car? Like a co-op or co-housing?? a co-car??

~nd

[read]

ND - I love your idea of a communal car. In many areas of the country, they have these (I think the google-able term is "car sharing"). Zip Car is the biggest, but in some areas, I think there are others.

JFrenzel - I could have sworn there was a little quiz on whether it's a good idea to ditch your car in the book Divorce Your Car!, by Katie Alvord -- but I just thumbed through my copy and couldn't find it. Sorry! I went through a similar wondering process when I first started exploring the idea. I went back and forth for a good 6 months. I think a trial period of trying not to use your car is good. When I started, I tried to see how long I could go without mine -- then wrote down when I ended up using it. For the first few months, my reasons for driving were things like: "I was on email too long and didn't leave myself enough time" or "I couldn't find the right bag to carry my stuff" or (I'm a girly girl) "I was wearing heels." Slowly, I found ways around most of these barriers -- until I was using my car only for hauling heavy objects or traveling long distances late at night.


I'm sorry, everyone, for my long posts on being car-free. Seems I've hit on a passion or something--

[JFrenzel]

HaHa,

Perhaps a muse on ditching the old automobile. That would be something totally different.


Cheers

Jose

[JFrenzel]

What are your thoughts on those Smart Cars. I don't know how smart they really are, look at the VW diesel, 45mpg.


Jose

[read]

I think they're so cute! I love seeing how they squeeze into parking spaces heretofore unknown to man -- and I've heard (am I right?) that, in city driving, they might get better gas mileage than even a hybrid, and for a much less expensive price tag. However, I have heard mixed messages about their safety in a crash. Can't remember where any of these articles came from (sadly), so I don't know how much help I am---

Definitely worth a look, though--

[Marcie]

What are your thoughts on those Smart Cars. I don't know how smart they really are, look at the VW diesel, 45mpg.


Jose

Audi & VW are doing some amazing things w/ diesel - they're actually cleaner and more efficient then regular gas engines - I just wish they didn't cost so much. A related example is, buying a hybrid for 10K more to save $1K per year on gas - doesn't make much sense. And you also have to pay for the electricity - and the power plant itself puts emmissions into the air - ugh. I do love the movement towards cleaner cars -- it's hard trying to be green! But I am a big fan of Audi & VW - well built, hold their value, etc. :cool:

Check out http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4219904.html

[JFrenzel]

You are so right, I checked out that site. VW has some rad cars in Europe, what I found most interesting though was the following: how long it takes for those "fuel efficient" cars to make them worthwhile in comparison of time vs cost.


Pura Vida Siempre,


Jose Castro-Frenzel

[JFrenzel]

Does anybody know someone who skateboards to work?


Jose

[froldt]

Not to work, but I see a number of people who skateboard to school. One girl has a long board that she uses to get around. I know she passes me up every time, so it's definitely faster than walking. She has a bookbag that she wears, and carries the skateboard when she's not using it.

[Lucas]

In 1999 I lost my license for 90 days, and I never ended up getting it back for about 5 years. Got it back and had it, and just recently lost it again...and I dont plan on getting it back anytime soon. Cars are a pain in the ass for me. They are the supreme example of entropy, all a car does is get worse. I like taking slow trips, and not having a car actually helps you define what is essential in your life.

I dont mind saving the 200-500 dollars a month either.

[badhank]

Does anybody know someone who skateboards to work?


Jose

no but i can go to McDonalds and ask *rim-shot*

[TPapp]

Have you thought about getting a moped, maybe a 50cc or 80cc? I live in L.A. and commute 17 miles round trip to work and back everyday and it serves me well. Granted it tops out at 45 mph (and that's really pushing it) but it only takes me 5-3 minutes more to get to work and less to get back home in regular L.A. traffic because I can split lanes, plus it's 10x more fun and costs me $5 a week in gas and $190 a year for insurance. I'm saving $160 a month in gas alone!(I used to drive a Land Rover)

You can buy a good enough one for around $1,000, just search craigslist. You should at least seriously consider one if the public transport where you live is as bad as it is in L.A.