I've tried Interenet Marketing and failed...

[Lucretia]

The 4HWW has lots of great suggestions and I really like the online calculator for the 6-12 month goals...BUT...The 4 hour workweek seems to hinge on Internet marketing! HELP! I spent over 12K supposedly learning all about Internet marketing...with capture pages and auto-responders, blogs and my own information product...nothing. I tried two topics: the Law of Attraction and Creativity. It didn't work. What will be different this time? How can I find the right niche so as not to waste my time again? I am actually an artist but have not figured out how to cash in on that particular talent: www.evecustomart.com. Any suggestions? Thanks!

[JFrenzel]

The hyperlink you posted does not work. Please resubmit for the members to see : )
12k on learning.... Out of curiosity how and where did you do this? Micro test, this part is very important. I had the pleasure to speak with Tim on the phone once and he kept saying this was super important.


Cheers

jose

[Sven]

I had a look around your site and a few things strike me as odd.

Your work seems very accessible but the site seem not to be. Could it be that the ease with which you paint is not reflected in the way the website was put together, as if it was a struggle for you to get it designed, set up and published?

To me the website seems to lack the basics for good communication (good copy, understandable structure), the colors are not as vibrant as they apear in the paintings, the copy is unapealing, there is no overall style which your work does seem to have? To me this is confusing and leads me to think that the work you have done so far must have come trough personal contacts.

No amount if training on internet marketing will work if the website itself is not up to scratch.

[kamakiri]

I would have to say that site looks like one my 7 year old son made last week. You could have done something yourself better using Web Sites for Dummies Version 26 (no idea of the current version, but there are a lot of them).

I see others asked the same thing. I can't imagine what cost 12k. You could buy an entire library of very good books for 1/12 that cost.

Your post really tells us nothing, aside from you being bilked out if 12k, and that only tells us that you are gullible. If you want some productive advice, then give us some detailed information.

What have you done (specifically)?
What is your muse?
Do you at least have an executive summary?
Business plan?

[Lucretia]

I appreciate your suggestions. I did NOT try internet marketing with my own art website! I posted the link for people to see my art...perhaps I should use that as a base for an internet business. My two topics I tried were the Law of Attraction and Creativity. Both of those were deemed appropriate by my "teacher". I created capture pages, subscribed to list builders, google adwords and other techniques. I created a CD to send people for "free" in order to build a clientele. I actually did create my art site on my own several years ago and I only receive business at this point via word-of-mouth. If I were to create an internet marketing business with my art...I would have to keep creating "art" for sale. That's why I'd really like to find a profitable niche that is not based on my having to make anything myself. I actually went through 2 Internet Marketing trainings for a total of 24K! Silly, huh?

[lovinglife]

So what is/was your actual product(s) that you were trying to sell via the internet? Law of Attaction and Creativity are not actual products - ebooks, cds, seminars, courses, etc. on understanding/using LOA and Creativity are. If you don't have a viable product, you could spend millions on marketing and still fail ("New Coke" anyone?)

As an aside - your artwork is wonderful.

[JFrenzel]

Ok I am confused and would like to help and I am sure the rest of the forum is confused.... I will break it down into numbered questions, as to serve as a reference point.


1. What exactly did you spend 24K on marketing? Was this a work shop someone put together. That is the cost of like 6 Anthony Robbins training seminars in Fiji. Please specify.

2. Exactly what product are you trying to sell? I think the audience is confused. Are you selling law of attraction products or you artwork. I am very lost on this one. Please understand we are taking the time out of our day to try and help you, so please make it seamless and simple for us.

3. Who was your "teacher" they are raking in the cash. Let us know this to avoid this person if I ever pass em by : )


4. Furthermore, I would not ever give something away for nothing. It makes the site look like a gimmick, not to mention you get to pay for the postage. Hell no!!!!! I don't ever take anyone serious who is offering something for free. Now a trial period is a whole other thing.

5. This 24k was spent over what period of time?



Please clear these up for the community. There are a lot of bright minds here and I have had some great ideas/feedback from other members.


Jose


PS ELANCE, why is everyone not using them already??? This frustrates me, there is no way you are going to get a site done cheaper here in the states, nor is the quality going to be better. Lastly, people overseas don't bitch and complain like they do here. If this offends somebody, it does then. But this is the truth.

[travelhead]

You are an artist, I'm guessing that's your passion.

You have a few options:

1) If you want to be a painter..

Focus on what you are good at. If you are fantastic at creating murals and want to dedicate yourself to that, you can go to 99designs.com and get your website redesigned. Then you can drive traffic to your blog and get referrals. You are still trading money for time, so it's not ideal.

2) Create an ebook/website about "How To Create Wall Murals" and sell it on Clickbank. Again, focusing on what you are good at. The website can be designed cheaply. The ebook can take the person through the steps of creating a mural. Is this something that would sell? I'm not sure.

3) Learn internet marketing and build websites in the art/mural niche. You probably know a lot about wall paints, and could create a review site on different paints, or other ideas stemming from the art niche. I suggest this over idea #4.

4) Learn internet marketing and go after niches you are knowledgeable about. If you have other passions or interests, perhaps you can focus on them. Again, this takes more investment in time & energy and seems like you are pretty burned out.

Perhaps you need to start with #1 , then branch off to #2, then #3, and #4 in that order :)

Sincerely,
Josh
scrappybusiness.com

[Sven]

Ok, business Idea:

If you make a mural, take tonnes of high resolution pictures of it and sell those as postcards, print on canvas, posters etc. If a client does not want you to, the mural will be more expensive.

As for the website, I feel that no matter what you do, always use as much open source as possible. With everything that you have custom made you remain dependend on the supplier. This is fine with a trusted one but I would not like to be dependant on someone I met online...

[lovinglife]

If you want to incorporate your art into your muse, head over to www.cafepress.com and design some products using your artwork. Canvas bags to replace plastic grocery store bags are a hot item right now. You could have a variety of products sporting your artwork at no cost to you and very little effort in creating them if you use existing artwork. Probably won't make you very much money, but you would have your art out there circutaing and you could add it your "resume" and maybe that will open up other possiblities/ideas

[webgal]

You are an artist, I'm guessing that's your passion.

2) Create an ebook/website about "How To Create Wall Murals" and sell it on Clickbank. Again, focusing on what you are good at. The website can be designed cheaply. The ebook can take the person through the steps of creating a mural. Is this something that would sell? I'm not sure.

Do you MAKE that much when you create the ebook? Because looking at the commissions, it looks like you make more when you are an affiliate. The commissions are 75% and even 90%.

[ChiTowner]

I like the 'How to Create a Mural' idea, but why not make it a DVD. That will give the information a much higher perceived value. Having someone film you while you paint will make it much easier to get across your expertise and passion

Make it a series of related DVDs and people will most likely buy more than one DVD from you

Use companies like www.cafepress.com, www.lulu.com, www.kunaki.com, www.amazon.com and you'll never have to actually fulfill the orders. They'll do it for you for a cut of the selling price. You won't be dependent on creating more art to keep your muse going

I recently discovered Bill Myers who has a huge amount of information on product development, particularly DVD based information products. His site www.bmyers.com is a paid subscription site but he does have alot of free info - enough for you to work out whether you want to subscribe

hope that helps
Debbie

[camdengirl]

I find this quite interesting because despite having a captive niche list of prospects for my online product, I have trouble converting them into sales.

The research was good, the product is well tested and good - it's just those conversions from leads into buyers!!!

$24K - ouch!! :( I feel for you!

[webgal]

I find this quite interesting because despite having a captive niche list of prospects for my online product, I have trouble converting them into sales.

The research was good, the product is well tested and good - it's just those conversions from leads into buyers!!!

$24K - ouch!! :( I feel for you!

I think it's because people lack the ability to establish product position. And once they do, they can't communicate it.

It's an ethereal concept, hard to grasp. And people think "marketing" is "advertising" when in fact part of that equation is carving a product position that integrates the benefit of what it is you are selling to a target audience.

I create communications plans for clients and when I do this I always start with an analysis of the present communications.

You start with a goal. For instance, "I want more people in my state to make an appointment for a heart health assessment."

Then you isolate that target audience you want to go after and define them. Find which audience will value this enough to come get it. People in a particular part of the state. Perhaps it's people in a certain age group who have a straight 35 minute drive on a highway to your office.

Then position your product/service it so that it's obvious the target audience should do this. Write benefits and then say "So what?" until you've reached an emotional reason.

Then write this position strategy and focus all your communications on this. Make the price go away by simply making it a natural thing to do or buy because the payoff/end result is so much more.

Make sure that if you are showcasing a product on a website, that it's clear what the benefit is to this audience.

That is REALLY simplified. But an outline. And it is the chief reason most businesses fail.

Nobody wants to take time to plan. They want to DO. They want the RESULT. But they never get there because no one understands why they need what you sell.

Traffic is another reason. But people can wrap their heads around this because it's a number. But the right traffic is key.

[Lucretia]

The one true product I had was a CD about Creativity...called "You Are a Creative Genius". It was offered for the cost of shipping once someone signed up for my Tips on Creativity. It was offered along with a personal consultation and more info on creativity. Both the "Law of Attraction" and "Creativity" subjects were mostly list building. I sent out tips and information and occasionally affiliate links where the member could purchase something. The idea was to build a good list, train them to click on links then develop the products they wanted as well as doing joint ventures with other people who have lists. The Theory sounded good..it took too long for results and all my monthly expenses became too much: List Builders, Google adwords, a shopping cart, etc etc. I made a couple affiliate sales and sold 8 CD's but could not get anyone to have a consultation with me.

The first 12K was with an Omar Periu affiliate called Click Income. The second 12K was with Matt Bacak.

Yes, My passion is art...don't know how to turn it into something automated on the internet. I wanted to make a lot of money with something so that I COULD just sit around and paint!!

Thanks again for all you helpful suggestions!

Lucretia

[Leigh Anne]

Your art is fabulous. F-a-b-u-l-o-u-s. I'm always happy to see women with entrepreneurial drive. You received some harsh, cruel and downright violent commentary. Sven and kamakiri perhaps see things differently in their native lands, maybe they're jealous or they might simply dislike women entrepreneurs. Ignore anything that sounds vicious, those people aren't inclined to help you.

That being said, don't ever (evah, nevah!) again tell people that you spent $24,000 on Internet Marketing classes to sell essays on the Law of Attraction. This gives people the impression that you might be a troll not a valid poster and they will take potshots at you. Go and sin no more.

Your web site is not perfect but is not that bad, it shows up a little asymmetrical on my monitor. So what? You'll fix it; that's the easy part.

I concur with ChiTowner's suggestion about the mural how-to DVDs. You would also be a natural for selling DVDs demonstrating faux finishes or other decorative arts. You could create these intellectual properties once and sell the copies over and over. You could create a series of them and build a following. You already have the authority and credentials.

1)Don't spend more money. Concentrate on picking up the free info that flows around the Internet. For example, Dave Ovenden in the UK has free online videos showing video production outsourcing. To take a look you don't have to opt-in or to buy anything, I didn't. That goes for all of the links below. You don't have to buy everything that is offered to you. There is a lot of free stuff out there. Use that first.
http://daveovenden.com/tools/how-to-outsource-cd--production-video.html

2)The free Thirty Day Challenge this year will probably focus on creating and marketing a product online. You might learn something and test your product without spending a whole lot of money. You will also be in contact with hundreds of other online marketers, beginners and pros, sharing info and experience. Go sign up immediately, what do you have to lose? It's free.
http://www.thirtydaychallenge.com/blog

3)There is ABSOLULTELY nothing, NOTHING! wrong with giving away something free to drive traffic and establish relationships with customers. Whatever you give away, you have more where that came from. Damn, I wish I had your art skills.

4)If you are not doing this already, put up some artwork on eBay and put links on your About Me page to drive traffic. Be sure to follow the rules. You could also make a short YouTube video and use links to drive to your web site. Check out Jim Cockrum's eBay blog and newsletter
http://www.jimcockrum.com/blog/

5)Start a blog. Post often. Your present web site is a good start. Look at what the artist Duane Keiser is doing. I love his work.
http://www.duanekeiser.com

6)Come back to these forums. Let us know what you are doing. You're going to be very successful.

7)You probably know all of the above anyway, because of those high-priced classes but the right products for you might make all the difference.

[webgal]

I'd try craigslist for free. Art is a tough one. I make jewelry and I just do it for fun. When I go somewhere it sells like mad. But I don't have time and it doesn't really make the money I make writing and creating ads. Which I do love, thankfullly.

I'm not saying give up. I'm telling you it can be tough. You might be successful pairing it with framing or something like that. Your art is good but you need to find that audience niche. And, like you said, it is something you have to produce. But people paint walls and it's one of those things that will hit you.

I do know that advertisers pay for illustrators if you like this kind of work.

[Sven]

Sven and kamakiri perhaps see things differently in their native lands, maybe they're jealous or they might simply dislike women entrepreneurs. Ignore anything that sounds vicious, those people aren't inclined to help you.


I'm sure Kamakiri is just here to waste his time, as I am too.

I can not stand women, do not want them anywhere around me, especially on the internet. Internet is a man thing. Stay away. Go clean the house.

That is me, warming up to being vicious. And none of it is true.

If I recall correctly women have a lot of communication going between the lines of what they actually say. Men do not, they exchange information. That is the basis for all miscommunication between men and women. I hope that if you reread my posts that you find there is only there what I actually wrote. If you read anything between the lines it is a figment of your immagination.

I enjoy reading about other peoples troubles and like to think about possible reasons and solutions because I learn a lot from it. And since this forum is about 80/20 I write my responces quickly. Sometimes a contribution may turn out to be harsh. To bad.

3)There is ABSOLULTELY nothing, NOTHING! wrong with giving away something free to drive traffic and establish relationships with customers. Whatever you give away, you have more where that came from. Damn, I wish I had your art skills.

Actually, there may be a lot wrong about this but it depends on the situation. If you give away something that you think of as cheap but the reciever percieves as high value, you trow away money. You may end up giving away what should be a primary product. You may actually degrade your overall value as the reciever may think that you do not value your primary product enough to ask good money for it!
But it is alway good to think about ways to entice customers and giving away free stuff can be a very good tool to do so.

Maybe it is better to let someone "win" the gift. That makes it more special, gives a higher percieved value.

[JFrenzel]

I agree with Sven. I am not attacking you at all. But I would definitely check out Elance, please feel free to email me or im me. I will give you suggestions that I have used, I have a concrete company in Dallas that has done well for me and I may have some tips for me. MY email is jose1981@mac.com or you can reach me at my blog, www.josecastrofrenzel.com This forum can be harsh but they really are trying to help, and as far as Kamakiri's comments, he has been very helpful to me. SO i think it is unfair and quite stupid to say that he is sexist. That is absolute garbage.

But keep pushing yourself, you will do well. Perhaps setting real tight budgets will help you.

Cheers

jose

[lovinglife]

I wanted to comment on the giving something away for free - it does work if you do it right.I've been in a particular niche industry for over a decade - back in the dinosaur ages when the internet was just getting off the ground as a place to do business (most smaller companies, including me didn't even have shopping carts -you still had to call or fax in your order).

Over the years we have tried a multitude of ideas in order to get customers to the site and then to get them to stick around long enough to buy something. We offer them a free ebook and a free weekly newsletter (emailed). It works - we have a mailing list of about 10,000. This is actually a quite common idea used by a lot of companies - offer a person something of value (special report, tips, etc. - just make sure the info is not cheesy and a waste of their time). Once you have them on your list, keep your name in front of them. I think statistics say that it takes, on average, 7 contacts before a customer will buy.

One woman who has built a seven figure business off of doing this is www.alexandriabrown.com. She sells marketing info, but her free weekly newsletters have great tips that you can use. I've been on her list for a few years and have watched her business grow.

[webgal]

Men are cut to the chase. I actually am, too. Off to go scrub something. <grin> That was for you Sven. And I know you were kidding.

I appreciate that you shared the programs you used so others can see that you don't simply take a course and money flows in. It's not that easy. And it's good for others to know that. You put yourself out there and as a result, others will benefit. We all make mistakes, some more expensive than others. But we certainly remember the expensive ones.

[JFrenzel]

Ok, I am going to sound like a pig, but she is hot! Sex sells period. My takes on that hyperlink...


: ) Jose