How about a group muse?

[mandasol]

I've been reading and participating in this forum for about a month now, and what it's lacking on volume it more than makes up for on quality. The advice, enthusiasm, encouragement, diligent job by the moderators to keep posts in line is fantastic.

I have a couple observations. There are a few people on here that seem to have all their ducks in a row and are doing well, or at least enough. Then there are some brave souls that take the plunge to create a new muse and open them to everyone on the board for advice come what may. Though it appears the vast majority are newbies struggling to create a muse. It also seems that there is an even bigger majority that just views the posts from the sidelines and have never contributed with any posts of their own -- which is the case with many boards. Hopefully that majority doesn't give up on creating the lifestyle that they really desire.

With all the resources of talent, skills, and enthusiasm here it seems like people could put their heads together and do some really great things. We have programmers, marketing experts, product experts, distribution, legal, and on and on. There is a whole company here, actually a complete vertical chain for an industry (muse creation industry?).

With the success of sites like plentyoffish.com that really leave a lot for improvement, but somehow succeeds due to the efforts of the community, seems like a muse created by a small focused community could be just as successful or more so.

Anyone up for trying to create a group to work on a muse together?

It could be like an IPO, for the first group that signs on each individual has to be able to offer something to benefit the group, and that initial group becomes the initial shareholders (in case there actually are some profits). Subsequent public offerings for contributors to join the group can increase that shareholder base -- I'm the senior officer for a commercial real estate firm, so I speak shareholder/investment/asset management language.

Anyway, a little about myself and how I came up with this idea. I have the traits for several disorders, OCD, Dyslexia, Low latent inhibition, ADD, and probably a couple others I don't know the names of. I was a good~troubled child, suspensions, reprimands, failing grades, nearly kicked out of college for low academic achievement, though I never really got into serious trouble or did anything bad. I've come to learn about these disorders or traits only later in life as I was finishing university studies, though luckily have been able to control, overcome, or use them to my advantage. Since school (where I studied computer science and business administration) I've been very productive. I've run numerous retail and service businesses of my family and my own (gas stations, gift shops, restaurants, grocery, jewelry), import/export business, wholesale distribution of watches and jewelry, real estate sales (residential and commercial), investment grade asset management and aquisition, and senior management for large scale commercial real estate developments.

Basically I learned how to set goals analyse my positive and negative traits and apply them or find solutions to reach my goals. More recently I've learned the benefits of working together with a team. I've been working on a large commercial develpment for the past three years and so far so good which is saying a lot in these times, and I owe it completetly to the efforts of my team.

I see the people on this board and think I couldn't have asked for better team members to work on a project together. So I guess I need to put my money where my mouth is.

Since, my background is computer science and business administration, I've been obsessed with e-commerce since the early 90's. I've tried many internet marketing courses, mlm's, cookie cutter sites, you name it. I actually made some profits on some projects, but I kept getting dragged back into bricks and morter businesses. During that time I came up with theories of why some sites are successful and why some are not, and started taking notes for ideas for online businesses. I now have an "incubator" of more than 20 totally unique and original website projects or original twists on existing successful websites. I'm currently paying developers to work on two of those now - sorry I'm keeping those all to myself.

Since I have so many (of what I think are) great ideas not being developed I thought how awesome would it be to develop one of them as a psuedo open project with the people on this board and at the very least I thought it would give the chance for some people to get hands on experience on something to get them started and even hopefully share the profits (again in the really far out chance it makes money). I'd even be willing to put in some seed money to get it started (domain registration, servers, programing, marketing etc., as long I can get paid back from profits, if there are any.)

If anyone is up for a group project please speak up!

[mfornas]

I am just a newbie about setting up muses, but maybe I can help somehow.

If you track a bit my activity you will see that I have been contributing actively to the forum for the past 2 weeks or so. I bought the book about 6 months ago but as almost everyone else (except the members of this forum I guess) I just entertained the idea of doing something, but it was more like a fancy dream.

But a recent personal event (my father died) kicked something inside me. I do not know how to express it well in English but it set apart fears about a lot of things.

I eliminated thoughts like: I lose all my money, I am not ready to do it, It won't work, I do not know where to begin, I will begin tomorrow

I began reading, learning, asking, and finally thinking about things that I can do. I have "gained momentum" and now I am doing the steps to get something going.

Why am I saying ALL OF THIS? Because this community has help me a lot in the short time I have been here and I too believe that together we can do some nice things.

Good things that can happen if you work in a group muse?
1. We can learn and share facts about what is really working and what not.
2. Since we have a commom project we will gather more ideas about every problem that may arise
3. We are more people able to work for this project without investing a lot (mainly our time and expertise)
4. We could make some/a lot of money out of it.

What's the worst it can happen?
We lose time and some money

Risks: Organizational problems, responsability issues (not doing things), not foreseen expenses

If I can contribute to this project I am willing to join.
My personal expertise in in .NET Winforms programing (mainly 2.0), Database programing (Access, SQL Server) some ASP.NET and user interface designing. I have been designing software programs for warehouse and factories since year 2002. Previously I moved from Spain to the Netherlands to work for a big company as a VB programmer.

If not I can always give you my opinion about something related to my field (or about the nice weather we usually have here :D )

I think I am showing a lot of excitement lately... but I can't help it. I am having a lot of fun working on my muse. I really do.

[FHouston]

I agree that a lot of people probably "read only" on these forums and may just take bits and pieces of info to actually apply. Many people, me included, have the desire to live the lifestyle of freedom, etc. but we just lack the knowledge to make it happen or we think that "life gets in the way" with our daily grind of responsibilities. Perhaps a group effort would be viewed as a less risky way to approach lifestyle design.

In my case, I have the desire and am willing to buy in to the idea of muse, etc......but....I really need more knowledge. I don't know how to do it yet. Yes, we know that we would like to live with more freedom, we would like to be in charge, be our own boss, and pursue our passions, but we don't know HOW to do it. I see this a lot with so many of the various money making plans out there with internet marketing, dropshipping, etc....so many sources tell us that we SHOULD do this, describing the benefits and dance around the issue, but rarely do you find a legitimate source that tells you HOW TO DO IT.

The 4HWW gives some great insight, but, still myself, and others still need to know how to really learn this stuff. There is so much crap out there, so many overwhelming sources and choices, all with an agenda. I wish I personally knew someone who has successfully created an automated muse and that they would sit down with me at my computer and step-by-step show me what to do with various ideas that come across my mind. It's one thing for me to have some ideas, but it's a whole other thing to actually apply and execute the principles. I'm confident that, given time to learn, I could implement a muse and be successful with it.

Anyway, just some thoughts. Lifestyle Design is a process and, for those like myself, a total "un-doing" of the mainstream adult life mentality that is drilled into so many of us as we grow up, i.e. "you have to be good, go to college, so you can get a good steady job so you can retire someday" way of thinking. As we are discovering with the lifestyle design concepts, mainstream doctrine is not always correct.....unconventional can be a good thing.

[nghs22]

great post mate. I feel the same way!!

[badhank]

sounds like a decent idea to scout for talent here
the group idea is great, but without a leader u see a lot of wheel spinning. Even if you wanna step up and say "i'm doing a muse, i need 1xadword pro, 2xprogrammer, 4xsales ppl, 1x graphics guy" etc etc it will still b hard to get many strangers working together as a functional unit.

And most important aside from throwing the idea out there, how do you/we proceed, whats the first step?

[webgal]

One thing I think is missing from everyone's posts is what they do. And I don't mean your individual posts, I mean I'd like to see:

badhank
programmer
.NET, Geeky stuff etc.

Not as much a signature but a definition. Anyway, it would sort of give you a way to identify who has what skill. Few are good at all aspects of business and with competition being what it is, it can help.

At the very least, this would offer more opportunity for people to team up. There may be a simple modification for this that is less apt to be abused. I'll see if there is and then I'll see if the grand master likes the idea.

[clanshrapnel]

IMO, having too many to collaborate with hinders the process. When you say group, you're implying more than 2 (otherwise that would be a partnership of some sorts), and let me tell you... even working with 1 other person makes it complicated enough.

The other person would have to have the same vision and goals as you, and I think that is hard to truly see in a person in real life, let alone on a message board where emotions/thinking are masked. Just because someone types, 'Let's take this through to the end! I'm with ya!' doesn't mean they have the same work ethic and level of commitment you may have. Trust me, I've tried to do this with people in real LIFE, and they've all fallen to laziness, lost motivation, and getting side-tracked by relationships, new job opportunities, and 'easier' money.

If you do think you've really found several individuals that you trust enough and think you know well enough to see it through to the end, you then have to work out the details of creating a business (possibly across several states) amongst several people. The tax implications are complicated.

And honestly, most of the people looking to join a group business venture are just there for the motivation, hoping YOU will carry them through and hold their hand. I found that out the hard way by initially working with people in real life who had the initial enthusiasm but lacked the discipline and work ethic to see it through. And as soon as things slowed down and the initial easy parts were done, they left. And you know what? Good riddance, because I don't have time to hold anyone's hand, especially when I'm trying to get a grasp of new concepts and ideas MYSELF.

There are exceptions, but for the most part, I'd advise to just make things easier for yourself if you are indeed serious about this: do it on your own, or at the least, with someone you have met in real life that you know pretty well. It's not a small deal to start a company with someone else, and that's where your 'project' would go if things really took off in the right direction.

Hiring someone to design your webpage or copywrite for your blog is totally different, because in that situation, you're compensating them directly for their services while you hold the risk of maintaining the company. But you also free yourself of all of the complications that arise from having a group to make every decision.

BTW for those of you looking for guidance on how to build an e-commerce, I'd highly advise getting an e-business consultant (that's their job!) or at the least, check out the 'Starting an Online Business all-in-one desk reference for Dummies' book. That book looks to have the A-Z for an e-commerce and will give you the subjects/topics you'll need to research in depth to move further along. These are the fastest methods of obtaining knowledge (and make sure you apply it!).

[badhank]

so very right about so very many things clanshrapnel

i however don't think its completely 100% doomed due to the nature of the arrangement. I believe it has to be very tightly managed by 1 person who:
-has a very tight gameplan
-will make all the decisions without need for agreement by the rest of the team
-divides equity/profits/shares/revenue streams/liabilities/whatever in relation to the amount the individual team members actions/responsibilities contribute to the equity/profits/shares/revenue streams/liabilities/whatever
-has the ability to fire/bring in talent (in the event of the unforeseen)
-makes contact in person or by phone to all the members of the team as needed
-has exceptional project management skills and sets and sticks to milestones and deadlines
-spends more than 4 hours a week on this alone
-has everything i mentioned and more legaly drafted up and signed by everyone
-can think of more things that actually pertain to this than i can

that being said, hell i have a business line(i.e. decent internet connection) and a server, i will host whatever we want for free, dns just has 2 b pointed 2 my server (i can also host dns if some1 wants 2 pay for the name). I'm in for a slice of this phantom pie.

my skills include:

server administration (linux/bsd)
html/cgi/perl/ web apps (lamp stack, linux/apache/mysql/perl/php)
database creation and administration, database normalization
hypocritically pointing out ppl's flaws/telling it the way it is

[mandasol]

Great responses guys.

The goal of the group muse idea was to get people involved and started on something instead of just sitting around and thinking about it. I assume people will get out of it what they put into it. I'm not trying to find a shortcut for my muse. I have a good paying full time job, plus I still manage investment assets for my semi-retired parents, and I'm creating my own muses (well actually one is a website for a real estate development, and the other is more of a full scale e-commerce enterprise instead of just a muse). My enterprise project is my baby, I've been working on that thing for over four years, completely working out the details and flow, testing the ideas, paying thousands of dollars for surveys to questionaires to test out the validity of the project and to fine tune the processes, and wireframe level development.

With the group project, it's just that I have an over active mind and ideas shoot out all the time, several years ago I started writing them down and processing them into viable business ventures. I have too many just sitting around that I'll never be able to get around to. Fortunately enough I have a few that will work with a group dynamic, and actually may benefit from it. I'd like to get a brainstorming group to fine tune some of the ideas I haven't had a chance to completely flesh out, and possibly use those for the group project. Who knows in the brainstorming sessions nobody may like my ideas and an even better one may come out. That's the nature of a group. As long as there is a long term goal, a goal for every meeting or discussion, and continual advancement closer to the goal at every milestone, then the goal can eventually be met. This is an experiment, a learning experience. My very successful cousin in international trade in textiles once said to me "If there is ever any opportunity to do something, meet someone, go somewhere, try something new, then do it. Don't pass it up, because you always learn something, and it may lead to a great opportunity."

As far as organizational problems, I'm a senior manager for an investment group handling projects in the multi-millions (of dollars). For these types of organizations there needs to be transparent accountability at every level, and no money goes in or out without authorization from each department head, the group manager and the accounting controller. In the event a group project here ever gets that big, I have the experience and the processes to keep it together.

Since this idea was to be a chance to get people motivated to start something and to participate and get real hands on experience, it may not be a bad idea just to make it a nonprofit venture. Though that's not really fun, and definitely not why most of us are here, and I believe I can make my ideas turn a profit.

One of my motto's for developing my muses I actually stole from the movie "Say Anything". It goes something like " I don't want to sell anything, buy anything, or process anything as a career. I don't want to sell anything bought or processed, or buy anything sold or processed, or process anything sold, bought, or processed, or repair anything sold, bought, or processed. You know, as a career, I don't want to do that."

That is profound.

Anyway, since it seems like there is enough interest, I guess it's time to put a plan together. I'm good at that. I'll start to put a plan together, in the meantime it would be great to hear what anyone else can contribute, or if you just have over exuberant enthusiasm and not much more, well that's just as important, as my Norwegian/Australian friend Gareth that I met in at the New York Film academy in the mid 90's and haven't seen since used to say "let's get motivated!". (of course it's sounds better with that norwegian/australian accent, I just have a semi southern accent).

[badhank]

it may not be a bad idea just to make it a nonprofit venture.

unless some1 outlines for me how to make the hosting a tax write-off (remember, canada law) i pass on non-profit idea. revenue streams are revenue streams, even if theyre just a trickle.

[AntonTheKhan]

I think its great that you are here trying to lend a helping hand.
However, in my experience it is always best to focus on one thing and see it through the end. I myself have no experience in online e-commerce and Im learning all that I can. My muse is still not completed and is taking more time than expected because of having to work with others off-line.
Since this is a part time thing for all the people involved not everyone contributes as much effort and time as I can sometimes, they have other things going on and sometimes those things are a priority to them.
But Im confident that my muse will come to fruition pretty soon.
Just like you I have been bubbling with other ideas after I got started on my current business, but I haven't taken the step to start these other ideas. The reason - it takes too much focus and effort to work on the original idea, that I know if I start working on even one other idea now, I will lose focus on both pretty soon. Its normal.
So from my personal experience, I want to tame my first muse to the end, see how the whole thing works, analyze it and make it successful and then try and replicate the results with other ideas. I don't want to stretch myself too thin.

[nghs22]

Excellent responses everyone. I'm glad most people here have the same concerns. Anyways, here's what I can do respectably well :D

-Accountant by trade
-Knowledgeable eBay seller (Powerseller)
-Can build simple websites (www.wolfmountainhouse.com)
-Can make a "popular" blog (75+ uniques a day in under a month using only free traffic methods) www.youtubeguitarblog.com
-Youtube stud :cool: Search "BenWannaBee"
- Very flexible time schedule

[VitaminD]

Don't forget that the point of a muse is to REMOVE yourself from the income equation here, and to set up an architecture that supports automation.

[webgal]

I think those not interested in a large group project might want to team up with someone else who is like minded. And it may be that he was suggesting something similar to the 30-day challenge.

I don't think partnering or team approach is for everyone. But it does work for some.

[badhank]

ug i wish that was broken up int 10-12 smaller individual posts lol my eyes are bleeding

[mandasol]

At the beginning I don’t think it is fair or makes sense to get people to commit to a project if they don’t know what it’s about. At the first stage I’d like to start with a small group to work out the idea, then pose the idea to the larger masses to gather participants, at which time a partnership agreement can be made and signed by all the participants. A corporation, and most likely an LLC should be formed to reduce the liability of the participants. As long as the initial group did their homework and planned carefully, and the right participants signed up, the site should be up and running in 4 – 6 weeks, with maybe some beta testing before that. Then have everything automated and just market the site, or move on to the next project.

Please, PM me if you want to be part of the initial focus group, or if you don’t mind posting that if fine as well.

Please include: A general introduction of yourself, areas of skill or expertise, experience, interests, hobbies, and any other pertinent information.

If you’ve already posted or sent a PM do you mind reconfirming after reading my long discourse. Thanks.

[badhank]

hosting/sysadmin/dba/maybe programming if i have time reconfirm

[clanshrapnel]

so very right about so very many things clanshrapnel

i however don't think its completely 100% doomed due to the nature of the arrangement. I believe it has to be very tightly managed by 1 person who:
-has a very tight gameplan
-will make all the decisions without need for agreement by the rest of the team
-divides equity/profits/shares/revenue streams/liabilities/whatever in relation to the amount the individual team members actions/responsibilities contribute to the equity/profits/shares/revenue streams/liabilities/whatever
-has the ability to fire/bring in talent (in the event of the unforeseen)
-makes contact in person or by phone to all the members of the team as needed
-has exceptional project management skills and sets and sticks to milestones and deadlines
-spends more than 4 hours a week on this alone
-has everything i mentioned and more legaly drafted up and signed by everyone
-can think of more things that actually pertain to this than i can


If you can give me 1 good reason why a person who possesses the above abilities would want to split revenues with the number of people in the group RATHER than hire freelancers/employees to do the said work, then I would be impressed.

That goes 2 ways, meaning 1) If you were that person, I don't know why you'd want to get 25% of the profits (if there were 4 people in the group) instead of 100% of the profits and just pay fixed costs to get the work done and 2) if you're a person who doesn't possess those qualities above, good luck finding someone willing to do the above and still split the profits evenly with you. And if they're not splitting the profits evenly with you, then you're just becoming another employee for a company.



That said, I wish those members who are doing this group activity the best of luck and I hope it doesn't waste anybody's time. I'd ask that you try to do this in real life with people and see how hard it is in that situation, let alone trying to manage this over the internet with people you've never met before. I think that's just asking for trouble.

[mfornas]

Another thing to know is the time each one will be able to put into this venture.
For example I can put 1-2 hours daily (more 1 than 2, since I am putting as much time as I can to my other muse, which is getting ready)

[badhank]

If you can give me 1 good reason why a person who possesses the above abilities would want to split revenues with the number of people in the group RATHER than hire freelancers/employees to do the said work, then I would be impressed.

1) just got out of jail, previous assets seized and is unemployable.
2) started a business as a physical store, realized costs : profit . Started an online business w outsourcing, realized smaller costs : profit . Start one more business online with NO startup/maintenance/staffing cost to see how costs : profit turns out and compare
3) some sort of bet worthy of creating a teen comedy about, like "i bet you cant make the nerdiest girl prom queen"-esque genre . We laugh, we cry, and in the end we all learn something about what it means to be human

There you have it, 1 (perhaps 2) good reason(s), and a few possible but not specifically "good" reasons...

[padma]

This thread gives me a good idea for a website :)

[nghs22]

1) just got out of jail, previous assets seized and is unemployable.
2) started a business as a physical store, realized costs : profit . Started an online business w outsourcing, realized smaller costs : profit . Start one more business online with NO startup/maintenance/staffing cost to see how costs : profit turns out and compare
3) some sort of bet worthy of creating a teen comedy about, like "i bet you cant make the nerdiest girl prom queen"-esque genre . We laugh, we cry, and in the end we all learn something about what it means to be human

There you have it, 1 (perhaps 2) good reason(s), and a few possible but not specifically "good" reasons...

HAHAHHAHA. those are def good reasons

[Hunter UK]

Hi All,

Really thought this was a great thread to pop my cherry on!

As i have not quite finished the book yet as i read the Income Autopilot sections twice i am very happy to find the forums so lively and people so open with their ideas and advice.

With this Group idea I thought it may be valuable for all interested to post a profile and we can then take up contact with others whose skills compliment ours and see how we may work together / what Muse we could create, whether in a large group, small group or for a partnership.

So... I see this as an opportunity to sharpen my skills / knowledge of the setup process & learn about the problems i will inevitably face determining the best strategy for a solo muse. While making cash flow wouldn't be my ultimate goal I don't see why the right group couldn't get a return on their time investment.

As a successful (ie very profitable for my MD:) ) Recruiter my CV would offer some useful skills, characteristics & knowledge - most of which it would be quite hard to outsource on Elance:

> Head-hunting, cold calling, account mgt, generic sales, online searching
> Very good tele-sales skills, strong written sales
> Strong knowledge of business structure, drivers
> and what preferences they have when hiring people
> Knowledge of the Booming recruitment industry UK & Europe
> Job Market segmentation & targeting
> Project / Programme Management, Management Consultants
> Can lie like a politician when necessary :D

> Determination - the essential never say die "Sales attitude"
> Pragmatic & realistic with flexible approach to challenges
> Building Credibility quickly - personal / written
> Success focussed & solution oriented

I may also depending on legal aspects be able to mine personal data of people within a profession-aligned market.. emphasis on MAY there!

Hobbies of mine include Rugby Union, Motorbikes, Riding them, Zimbabwe (grew up there), Film, Travelling (the sooner the better:D ), Getting on the lash with friends and Video Games.

Happy to commit various amounts of time from 6h/w ++ depending on my weekend plans for the right idea & have cash to back up my stakes with too. Naturally i will be available evenings UK time so communication may be tricky with US collaborators but i'm certain we can work it to our advantage somehow. ;)

Very happy to hear from anyone who has an interest in collaboration, or an idea i may be able to help them with.

Jamie