Profiles International?

[Christoph]

Has anyone heard of this company? I ask because since I graduated, I have had my resume viewed quite a bit, and this company was one of them. The Director of Development contacted me, gave me the spiel, and had me take an evaluation (which is what I'd be selling) to see if I met or exceeded the 'benchmark' of their company. Suffice to say; I did, which is not surprising. They sell corporate personality assessments to evaluate employees attitudes, and whether or not they are suitable for the job. It's about human capital management, waste reduction, etc. All the fun crap it seems.

The kicker, now, is that their 3-day sales training course is like $2,500. Fine, fantastic. I don't have that at this point because recent school costs wiped me out totally for savings.

The director guy said that I would be selling to CEOs and for every sale, I would get 33%, and continue to get 33% for the lifetime of that account. I would also be able to work from home, use my name as the company, and essentially start my own business but still using their products. It seems like franchising to me in a sense.

Now, does that seem legit? They've been around for awhile, so it's not like some dipshit trying to make fast cash...I think.

It is tempting to give it a whirl because:
1) I can't stand 40 hours anymore
2) The earning potential is more than I can fathom at my age and career level
3) I could work from home
4) It affords the opportunity for my own 'company'
5) Screw it, why not?

I'm only concerned with the 'training cost' because that is a lot of money up front, and I will be damned if it is the typical sales BS. The name of the game IS sales, but I do NOT want to put in 12+ hours a day to make only 1 sale. That would defeat the purpose of this forum, and my future.

I know that was a long winded cluster, but if anyone needs anymore clarification before they can offer the yay or nay advice, I'll give it a shot. I still have no clue WTF I would be doing besides selling intangibles!!!!

Thanks in advance everyone, and you had better believe I will tap this board's resources frequently!!

-Chris

[UltraT]

Chris, sounds like a straight commission job with residuals. You shouldn't have to pay for training, if the company believes in you they should cover it. If you're good at sales or intrigued by the money, take a sales job where they pay you a draw against commission and train you. Or if you want near complete freedom take a 100% commission job. Their level of commitment to you is zero consequently your commitment to them can be zero. You only get paid if you produce no matter how much time you put in at the office. A great salesman can always make a living.

Good Luck!

[Christoph]

That was my thoughts. Unless their training is just life changing, or they personally fly me to their office in TX, I think that it is rather bogus. Why in god's name should I PAY to get a job? Their guarantee of six figures the first year? Idiots!

I'll call the VP of whatever his title is for humor's sake this afternoon after I leave work and chime in tonight or tomorrow to give you the full perspective, and or spiel of BS he will spout to me.

I've never done sales, and although the thought sucks, I might give it a chance. Hell, I might even succeed!

[Drewkerr]

Why in god's name should I PAY to get a job?

Weither the company is legit or not that is the wrong thinking. Thousands of people have to pay for a job in some way shape or form. What they are offering (from your post) is a business opportunity/career, and yes there are costs involved.

Ask any independent contractor or business owner how much they have to pay for "their job".

I own a mortgage company, and out of the 10 employees that do sales the ones that make over 6 figures are the ones that PAY for their JOB. They invest and reinvest in training (sales training, software training, & advanced product training), sales seminars, custom marketing, taking Referral Partners to lunch.

Look at a top real estate agent, their company doesn't pay for the personalized marketing, the custom websites, the moving vans with their pictures on them, the PPC campaigns.

Bottom line you have to PAY for a job. Look at it as more of as a investment and startup costs than paying for a job.

Drew

[Christoph]

It just seemed funny that that was one of the 'oh, and...' like it was an after thought. I DO view it as an investment, so I might have came off wrong. If I could scrape together the money to do this, and then succeed in making $50k+, which to me, that would be a lot...just for now though:)

I keep playing friggin phone tag with the VP, so I will get on that today, even though his sense of timing is rather horrible.

Thanks everyone, I'll keep this updated with how things progress. I'm just scared to poop about investing all the money I DON'T have at this point, and then hitting a wall and not making any. Yikes!

-Chris

[amuse-ing]

I would be very cautious about accepting a job that makes you pay upfront for training. There is one reason they do that, and that is to cover their cost because they are worried about losing money.

Jobs that require you to pay for training have a high turnover - meaning employees tend to come and go often. Because of this, they make you pay for training so they don't lose money training someone and then having that person leave after finding out the job wasn't for them. It can also make the company lots of money, as they are charging $2500 to train you. Do you really think it cost the company $2500 to train you for a 3 days sales course? No, they are actually making profit off of it.

Ask the company what their turnover ratio is. Also ask them what percentage of employees stay with the company more than one year. This will give you an idea of what to expect.

I used to work in a related industry where you had to pay up front for training. We did this because there was an extremely high turnover ratio. 90% of the people did not make it a year.

If you are still gung ho about the job, ask them if they can put a draw on your earnings. This way you don't have to pay up front for training, but once you start making sales and bringing in income, they take some of the profits away to pay back from training so if you find out the job isn't for you, you don't lose any money up front.

Good luck on whatever you decide.

[Christoph]

I tried to ask about using earnings to pay for training and the guy kind of avoided the question a little. It was rather blatant that they don't want to hear that. Oh well.

I see it as a trap and as an investment of sorts. If I could make $80k a year at 23 years old, I would definitely put down my hard earned money. However, if I were to do that and then only make a sale here, a sale there, and it not even equal out to my original investment...I would be a ticked off little puppy.

I've been playing phone tag with the recruiter, so today we will hopefully be the determining factor on whether or not I make 1) an idiotic decision, of 2) make a great, life changing investment.

Time will tell, but as always, I will keep all of you in the know :D

[davinic]

Christoph, any company that doesn't believe in their product enough to pay to train you should be avoided. You can make $80k in ANY sales job if you know what you're doing - and that's for reputable firms with draws and even base salaries, and of course paid training.

[Vagabond]

I tried to ask about using earnings to pay for training and the guy kind of avoided the question a little. It was rather blatant that they don't want to hear that. Oh well.

I see it as a trap and as an investment of sorts. If I could make $80k a year at 23 years old, I would definitely put down my hard earned money. However, if I were to do that and then only make a sale here, a sale there, and it not even equal out to my original investment...I would be a ticked off little puppy.

I've been playing phone tag with the recruiter, so today we will hopefully be the determining factor on whether or not I make 1) an idiotic decision, of 2) make a great, life changing investment.

Time will tell, but as always, I will keep all of you in the know :D

the fact he avoided the question is a HUGE red flag and you shouldve pursued it a bit..

[Christoph]

Screw it. I do not have time for the phone tag crap. The fact that it was avoided, and the fact that his voice inflection when leaving me voicemails was VERY insinsere sounding and almost forrced leads me to believe that they arent as big as they seem. So, if I sold $20,000 worth of surveys to CEO 'A'- I would make $6,600 right off the bat, and then for the life of that account, I'd continue on making 33% in residuals. It sounds golden, but I wonder how easy it would be to sell a tool that costs a whole hell of a lot more than actual company waste.

It was intriguing at first, now it's an annoyance.

Cool, another long winded thread with no resolution by me :(

[Webzu]

Screw it. I do not have time for the phone tag crap. The fact that it was avoided, and the fact that his voice inflection when leaving me voicemails was VERY insinsere sounding and almost forrced leads me to believe that they arent as big as they seem. So, if I sold $20,000 worth of surveys to CEO 'A'- I would make $6,600 right off the bat, and then for the life of that account, I'd continue on making 33% in residuals. It sounds golden, but I wonder how easy it would be to sell a tool that costs a whole hell of a lot more than actual company waste.

It was intriguing at first, now it's an annoyance.

Cool, another long winded thread with no resolution by me :(

You avoided losing your hard earned cash so this thread had a great resolution! That was bogus never pay a company for training, ever. Period. I'm glad you didn't pull the trigger on that one!

[Drewkerr]

Again with people saying you never should pay for training for a job. Thats not the case in every situation.

You have to pay for training, education and testing if you want to enter many fields (ie real estate, mortgage industry, insurance). They may be some companys that will pay for it, but there are a lot more that don't.

The statement should be DON'T pay for training IF the industry/product you will be selling is fishy, or the company is not upfront and totally honest.

Drew

[Webzu]

You don't pay the real estate company for training either, I was a realtor from 1999-2001. You pay for course work to prepare to take the test to get the state mandated licensing you need but that is to get your license which is required by state law and it's regulated by the state but once I went to work for a real estate broker company they didn't charge me for training.

It's 100% commission based so yes you have to pay for marketing, etc. but not for training to the company. You decide your marketing budget and how to spend it, etc. You do have to take courses to keep up with the state mandated licensing requirements but not to the company.

Some real estate companies might charge a desk fee but those are rare now days and you're paying for a desk (phones, etc.) not training.

So to clarify yes you do have to pay for licensing for real estate and other professions but the company you work for doesn't then charge you for more training. You can take courses, etc. but they are not required.

Any company especially if they "recruit" you via an online job site like Monster that asks you for money for training is a huge red flag that should be avoided.

Same thing with recruiters who want the candidates to pay, stay away. Legit recruiters are paid by the employers.

[davinic]

Licensing (real estate, mortgage industry, insurance) does not equal sales training.

[MuseMojo]

Licensing (real estate, mortgage industry, insurance) does not equal sales training.

It also doesn't guarantee even a modicum of competence, intelligence or integrity...I could tell you stories... Agggghhhhh.....

I'm SO enjoying working on my muse...

[Webzu]

It also doesn't guarantee even a modicum of competence, intelligence or integrity...I could tell you stories... Agggghhhhh.....

I'm SO enjoying working on my muse...

Almost nothing in life in guaranteed except death and taxes. :D