Muse Changes - Eightfoldtrading

[jpstephens]

I made some changes to my site http://www.eightfoldtrading.com per everyones request in the forum.

Here are some things I changed :

1 - I added descriptive titles for SEO purposes
2 - I added a contact page
3 - I added product return information
4 - I submitted the store to google product search

Still no sales :(

Does anyone have any clue about what I can do to turn the store into a profit machine? With an avg profit of $130 on my store it only will take me 10 or so products sold per month to be happy to start.

Any help that anyone can provide is appreciated.

[webgal]

Yahoo has an affiliate program. I'd join that for one. Start writing some articles and putting ads on craigslist. Do some social bookmarking. Advertise a contest to win something. It can even be an itunes card if this market likes that which it might not. Perhaps some cross promotion with simplebandsuccess? I think your businesses might go together well.

Look up "bum marketing" and see if you can post some reviews somewhere. Try ivouch.com and have someone review your store. This is just a start. The marketing is not easy. But building a list is a good idea so make sure you have a box for an enewsletter. It's a big part of internet shopping/marketing.

[webgal]

Forums. Join some forums. The signature in a forum or a blog gets replicated over and over and creating more backlinks.

[clanshrapnel]

Still no sales :(

Does anyone have any clue about what I can do to turn the store into a profit machine? With an avg profit of $130 on my store it only will take me 10 or so products sold per month to be happy to start.

Any help that anyone can provide is appreciated.


Perhaps if you put on the front page information about your store and what separates it from the rest. Looking at Prosoundeffects.com, you see the following:

"
Serious about Sound? So are we... ProSoundEffects is the professional's resource for royalty-free sound effects, production elements and sound library products. We aim to make your search to buy sound effects easy and enjoyable by bringing you:
• The best selection of professional sound effects libraries
• The latest product formats
• The lowest prices guaranteed
We represent over 300,000 sound effects from the following distinguished publishers
"

The front page on 8-fold trading only has products with no information about the store itself. That may hurt your credibility (even though you have a Contact page). Perhaps if you can also put more text in general on your front page (a link to a FAQ may help, too) that are not related to products, then your customer may feel less as if you're being 'pushy' with the products rather than working to get their loyalty, first.

Just my 2 cents.

[AntonTheKhan]

I made some changes to my site http://www.eightfoldtrading.com per everyones request in the forum.

Here are some things I changed :

1 - I added descriptive titles for SEO purposes
2 - I added a contact page
3 - I added product return information
4 - I submitted the store to google product search

Still no sales :(

Does anyone have any clue about what I can do to turn the store into a profit machine? With an avg profit of $130 on my store it only will take me 10 or so products sold per month to be happy to start.

Any help that anyone can provide is appreciated.

There was another dude on here trying to sell audio and music equipment. My question to you is this - why would I buy from you, when I can go and buy from Guitar Center, SamAsh, sweetwater.com or ZZSound.com - all well known and respected stores?
You can't compete just on price, thats definately a bad idea. You can't compete on a brand name because you don't have one.
What is your ANGLE, WHY SHOULD i BUY FROM YOU, when I can get these products easily from a well respected and credible store, often a real retail store with clear guarantee and return policies?
Don't you see how bad your idea is?

I'd suggest cut your losses now and move on to something that people want but that is not easily accessible or you provide convenience to the buyer that they can't get anywhere else.

[Grayman]

No sales yet, but what kind of traffic are you getting? If you got one sale, what would your conversion percentage be? 1% or 0.0003%?

Have you been running PPC campaigns? Maybe your ads are targeting the wrong kind of customer and you are getting poor traffic.

[jpstephens]

Hey I am sorry you feel my idea is bad and should cut my losses.

With an avg profit margin of 130 dollars per product I can see myself competing not by stealing all of their business but in the fact that I only need 10-20 sales per month to stay afloat to start.

What I am going to do is try to get some page rank first, I have a company that may get me 900 backlinks for 500 bucks which should significantly help my pagerank.

The next thing I need to do is get in touch with a ton of bands and see if they will shop with me and I will get them a coupon code to help them afford the equipment. I can hire a virtual assistant to scour myspace and other pages like that for contact information.

Also, I am going to be putting together some unique bundles of products that other competitors DONT offer, like a podcasting special, or guitar player setup, etc.

Other thoughts?

[AntonTheKhan]

Hey I am sorry you feel my idea is bad and should cut my losses.

With an avg profit margin of 130 dollars per product I can see myself competing not by stealing all of their business but in the fact that I only need 10-20 sales per month to stay afloat to start.

What I am going to do is try to get some page rank first, I have a company that may get me 900 backlinks for 500 bucks which should significantly help my pagerank.

The next thing I need to do is get in touch with a ton of bands and see if they will shop with me and I will get them a coupon code to help them afford the equipment. I can hire a virtual assistant to scour myspace and other pages like that for contact information.

Also, I am going to be putting together some unique bundles of products that other competitors DONT offer, like a podcasting special, or guitar player setup, etc.

Other thoughts?
I do not mean to be harsh on you 9actually i do), but you offer no benefit to buying from you. Again, it is very simple. I check your website, see something I like and then say to myself. Hey, who the hell is this guy, ok he is trustable, but you know what, I trust Guitar Center more, so Im gonna go with them.
No if you offered something like a complete tutorial on synthesis for electronic musicians in addition to selling hard to find or bundeled soft synths, I might give you a second look.
Im saying all of this as a fellow musician, thus I know the market.
You are trying to compete with the big guys and you won't make any money really. The Guitar Centers, SamAshes, Zzsounds etc are always gonan beat you in price, customer service, reability and credentials.
Sorry to burst your bubble. Good luck though. Give it a try.

[badhank]

i was turned off by both prices looking like the same thing, the only part of the page that looked bad to me. Look at this futureshop page
http://www.futureshop.ca/home.asp?newlang=EN&logon=&langid=EN
they have "save $$nnn" as a little yellow tab and ">>$PRICE" in red, looks in really saving money.
Ur site look like ur making up numbers. This is a perceived thing obviously.

[webgal]

What anton is getting at is it needs to speak to a target market. And to speak to this market, it needs some of the things he has mentioned. Clearly, this group wants evidence of credibility and supporting materials of some kind.

I'm telling you this because I've been in advertising and marketing over 20 years and that's the way it's done to carve market share and make sales. There are some free examples and a free target market document on my blog.

[AntonTheKhan]

What anton is getting at is it needs to speak to a target market. And to speak to this market, it needs some of the things he has mentioned. Clearly, this group wants evidence of credibility and supporting materials of some kind.

I'm telling you this because I've been in advertising and marketing over 20 years and that's the way it's done to carve market share and make sales. There are some free examples and a free target market document on my blog.

Thats not what Im getting to at all. All he does is, and Tim warns against that is resell major brand products, that I or anyone else can and will get from major retailers with proven track record or reability and credibility.

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Do you think I can make a living selling iPods on line? NO. Every guy and his mom are selling iPods all over the place. Thereis no way to compete especially if ur small.
I won't buy from a dude online with a Yahoo store, I will just go to my local Best Buy and buy from a trusted place. Think people think.

[webgal]

Sorry anton. I had thought that is what you meant.

Actually, it works all the time. It's when people repackage it that it works. For instance you'd have a tough time selling kitchen stuff. But if you were to name a site, Beyond the Grill. The manly man's cooking site, you have a chance. You've presented and repackaged it for a market. That's the only way it works.

[AntonTheKhan]

Sorry anton. I had thought that is what you meant.

Actually, it works all the time. It's when people repackage it that it works. For instance you'd have a tough time selling kitchen stuff. But if you were to name a site, Beyond the Grill. The manly man's cooking site, you have a chance. You've presented and repackaged it for a market. That's the only way it works.


Im getting tired of repeating this. To any audio recording enthusiast or professional, the stuff he sells is pretty common knowledge. I know where to find it cheaper and with guarantees. I can even go there and try it to see how it works. And pay in many cases less.
Its not even hard to find out.
The guy has no edge, he is just a small time reseller and will be happy if he gets a sale here and there. I give him about a month before he throws that idea in the trash and actually look into things like marketing basics.

[storm33229]

How are your sales going Anton? Just thought I'd ask.

[AntonTheKhan]

How are your sales going Anton? Just thought I'd ask.

I dont have my product up yet. But from reservations I have 7 sales from 175 visits. Or 4% conversion ratio for a $90 product.

[storm33229]

Nice! Is that over a month? I've been thinking more into what you've been saying about creating a business that fits into a niche. I do have a few things I can do to make myself unique but I'm considering going ahead and separating everything I sell by product type and selling them on individual sites specifically for that type of product. Do you think this is a better idea?

[AntonTheKhan]

I guess what Im trying to say is this. If I wanted a CAD Trion 3000, I'd just go on google and do - you guessed it COMPARISSON SHOPPING. The product jpstephen offers on his page can be found for the same OR LESSER price on more tusted and mainstream sites.
Now, if he was selling RARE out of PRODUCTION vintage guitars - that would be another story.

[storm33229]

I guess what Im trying to say is this. If I wanted a CAD Trion 3000, I'd just go on google and do - you guessed it COMPARISSON SHOPPING. The product jpstephen offers on his page can be found for the same OR LESSER price on more tusted and mainstream sites.
Now, if he was selling RARE out of PRODUCTION vintage guitars - that would be another story.
So your overall suggestion so that we can finally end this reseller confusion is to take your muse and apply it to hard to find product and resell that product; instead of reselling the worlds most announced products so that there are fewer comparison shopping battles between you and other sites/local shops.

At the same time, can you take a product...say...a turntable. And then start a site that sells all known turntables? In this way, not only are you selling the hard-to-find, but you're now reputable for supplying customers with every possible turntable available.

[webgal]

Anton- What are your suggestions to him then? I, for one, wouldn't choose to sell any kind of audio or computer equipment because return rate would be killer. I wouldn't sell clothes because the return rate is killer. I wouldn't sell audio equipment because I don't know anything about it.

Perhaps some specific examples would help him find that niche.

[storm33229]

Meh, I really may just have to go back to square one. And rethink a muse.

[SWBuddha]

jpstephens:

What you need to do is niche up your idea. This gets to what Khan is saying - you are reselling audio equipment and he can go to a bunch of places and get the same stuff.

I like providing constructive criticism... so here are some ideas you may have already considered. Basically, you've got to find a niche to market it to.

1. Target bloggers: an audience who typically knows squat about recording. Have it be a startup kit to get podcasting - higher quality equipment, a how-to ebook and/or dvd.

2. Sell to aspiring singers or bands - again - package it up with an ebook on how to connect everything or a cd that has recording software on it as well.

3. Find another smaller market that would buy these products like aspiring DJ's. Tell them it is an investment in their future business to buy quality equipment - maybe get a prominent DJ (I don't have a clue) to do a plug for your product.

Niche it up! You may end up with five or eight to fit your site name :) sites that target very small specific markets.

Did you do the research in the Muse chapter of 4HWW? I've personally read that chapter myself about 4 times and still don't know what muse to do.

[jpstephens]

I guess the niche idea is correct and I have been thinking about it.

Anton your criticism isnt constructive its just demeaning. Everyone else is here to help and your just cut and dry. There are ways to make things work.

I was thinking coupons and target touring bands. I was thinking perhaps give coupons out on myspace facebook and purevolume. Give them to all the bands and say you got 10% off, I right now have 30% profit margins on avg so that would be just cutting it down to 20%.

I also was considering bundles that other sites don't have like podcast bundles, guitar recording bundles, etc.

[AntonTheKhan]

I guess the niche idea is correct and I have been thinking about it.

Anton your criticism isnt constructive its just demeaning. Everyone else is here to help and your just cut and dry. There are ways to make things work.

I was thinking coupons and target touring bands. I was thinking perhaps give coupons out on myspace facebook and purevolume. Give them to all the bands and say you got 10% off, I right now have 30% profit margins on avg so that would be just cutting it down to 20%.

I also was considering bundles that other sites don't have like podcast bundles, guitar recording bundles, etc.

Hey, I do apologize if I wasnt providing constructive criticism or was being demeaning. It is just that music and recording is my hobby as well, so I know the market, because Im part of it. I have spent thousands of dollars on audio equipment.
Yes, if I were you Id niche down. Like sell only turntables plus a free guide on how to find gigs in clubs, lounges etc. You can connect with some successful DJs and interview them and provide the interviews as a bonus to any sale that someone makes on your website.
As for the bundles, there are a lot of these out there, and again provided by places like guitar center and sam ash. There a lot of DJ places as well, but if you push a bonus like the one I suggested that might be your hook.
Im not trying to put you down, Im just trying to save you money, time and nerves.
Push any free bonuses (besides lower price, this is not a good competition advantage, the retailers and big businesses are always going to win, they can take lower profit margins while you can't) and any other twists you can find. Put a forum on your store for DJs to gather and share knowledge, put listsings for DJ services or places looking for DJs.
Niche niche niche down is the name of the game.

[Marcie]

Niche niche niche down is the name of the game.

Awesome. That's so true. Thanks for all your good advice :)

JP: have you told us how you are driving traffic to your site? Forgive me if I missed something. I have a story to tell about really studying my keywords and getting rid of the ones that were not helping, but stay tuned :)

[clanshrapnel]

i think we're all getting at the same thing here.

You can't just offer something in the same store as everyone else. You have to offer something different, whether it's:

a) hard to get online
b) better service/return policy (which is very hard to beat from other big-name retailers)
c) much better prices (and even this may be a weak point)
d) or you offer something far different from other competitors in terms of service, quality, number of products, etc.


You have to strive to be different, not just get another store up, otherwise your next door neighbor will setup the same shop as you and start competing with you. It's to your advantage in the long run to have SOMETHING different than anybody else, or else you will get destroyed by competition that is doing the same as you. This is why Tim stresses selling information... because it's very difficult to replicate.

[jpstephens]

I agree with what your all saying. The way I see is we are all trying to do the same thing so why beat each other up. We are supposed to be lifting each other up.

It's a work in progress....

Also, I have another muse, its affiliate marketing again but I may have a chance with this one.

Tupperware.... their affiliate marketing scheme is great and there is very very little competition online.

I have done research for the following keywords:
Tupperware
Tuperware
Tupperware Products
Buy Tupperware
Shop Tupperware

The top sites have very little linkbacks, tupperware.com itself is a google pagerank of 3 and has only 243 linkbacks to it.

My site is http://www.plasticstoragestore.com and I just contracted with a linkbuilding company I found on eLance that is highly esteemed. I purchased 150 PR3 links to my site all C-Class for 100 bux. This should help me get on the first page and in front of all the competition and maybe even in front of tupperware.com.

Now heres the best part, I get 25% of every sale right off the bat. I don't have to worry about any of the logistics, I dont have to worry about shipping, etc. Also, anyone that I sign up I get a % of whatever they sell.

So my goal with this is to kick the crap out of all the Tupperware mommies, and have it as one of my muses. they can do tupperware parties while i outsource my linkbuilding to romania and eat their lunch!

thoughts?

[webgal]

Now we're getting somewhere in terms of real advice. Thanks anton, now you get what I mean because your advice is what I was getting at but I don't know enough about the industry to be that specific. I know you are passionate about music and the sound industry. Great examples.

Tupperware is a great product. I've even thought about this one myself. I have Tupperware my mom owned. The top broke on one last week and I made a joke about it not lasting the standard 40 years (It was at least 35 years old).

The practical but pretty. The sturdy but attractive. This is one of my favorites.

modular mates (http://order.tupperware.com/pls/htprod_www/tup_show_item.show_item_detail?fv_item_number=P100 49272000)

I think one way to sell is to show how it can be used. For example, the modular mates provide an air tight seal. People often put coffee in the freezer but it sucks the oils out of the coffee which actually flattens the flavor. It's far better to store it in one of these air tight containers. There is a big difference in flavor. And they stack nicely.

Tupperware is practical stuff. Prove to your shoppers that it is and how it can be used. Tupperware sends all this info to their home sellers. Take advantage of this. Show some you tube videos of the various uses, show containers with things in them and cite the advantages.

Put the monthly special on the front of your site (the save 40% stuff). Shoppers love a deal, put it in their face. And in ads, use the 40% off stuff to lure them to your store.

You gotta get the stackable cups. Those are great space savers.

Anyway, make an outline of all the practical things tupperware does:

airtight
conserves space
attractive presentation that is also practical
lasts a lifetime

Decide what your primary focus should be and sell it like that. Practical presentation?

You get the gist. Then get on some forums (ie. cooking) and start posting. You want to learn all you can about storage containers. You could do quite well in this niche. Invest yourself in it.

NEWSLETTER SIGN UP. You need to get the box on there.

The back button leads to a solid white page, by the way.

[jpstephens]

Yea I think with some real clever marketing I can get to #1 on Google for this, the Tupperware.com site isnt that strong as far as Page Rank is concerned.

I did a keyword test on google and "Tupperware" gets 75 estimated clicks a day from adwords so organic should be even higher.

This product sells itself, its a matter of getting in front of people, and if this idea works I can make a ton of other home selling websites for businesses like Tupperware.

[SWBuddha]

Another angle might be for people that just want the Tupperware and don't want to deal with the time commitment and sales pitchy BS that goes along with going to a party. Having to deal with the presenter trying to get more parties and/or people to start selling.

Maybe start a sub-site that markets to single men that shows how you can store Mom's cooking in your freezer for months.

[jpstephens]

thats a great idea, ill create a subdomain.... men.plasticstorageparty.com

fantastic angle thanks!

[webgal]

Men like tupperware, too.

[TimW]

No, men like things which will hold leftovers. I really don't care who makes it as long as it works. It could be made by Acme Widget Corporation, and as long as it did what i needed it to do (keep food for a couple days), then the name on it is unimportant to me. I think many men are like that....but that's just my opinion.

[webgal]

There is a market. I'm referring to men who know what stemware is and Ghoram and Waterford are. You're just not it, T. Now do they peruse the web and buy Tupperware? I don't know. That would take some testing.

[TimW]

I'm referring to men who know what stemware is and Ghoram and Waterford are. Now do they peruse the web and buy Tupperware? I don't know. That would take some testing.

That's the real question, isn't it?

Ghoram was that character in Lord of the Rings, right?? :)