How to get fired?

[dankenein]

I loved everything about the book--it confirmed many thoughts I'd been having as well as (gasp!) gave practical strategies and advice! However, one section that really intrigued me was the advantages of being fired (unemployment) over quitting. I wanted more details on how to make this happen. Seriously. I am poised to quit my beyond-repair job at the end of the year, regardless, but would much prefer the quiet firing.

Unfortunately, I work at an elite university where raises are NOT merit-based (so cutting back on productivity is not a fireable offense) and it's damn near impossible to be fired (you need to embezzle large amounts of money and I don't have access to finances!). Further, unprofessional and inappropriate behavior on the smaller scale (things that would be considered harassment other places) actually seems to be rewarded, not punished. Hard work, smarts, and integrity seem to be punished.

Any ideas? I suspect I'm just going to have to pull the trigger myself.

[kamakiri]

Re-read the book. The 4HWW has nothing to do with stealing, unprofessional and inappropriate behavior, or embezzlement.

It is not your employer that has those problems, it is you, and you will bring them anywhere you go. Go out and buy a Stephen Covey book, preferably 7 Habits, but any will do, read it and then put some of it into practice. Any social problems you have now will only get worse when you start to live the 4HWW lifestyle, so you are far better off getting them sorted out now.

[webgal]

Perhaps you were reading the book and your mind was translating it the way it wanted to read it. I think Tim just truly got fired. He didn't hatch an evil plot to make it happen.

Just find a different job until you can get your idea started and working. Then you can go part time maybe. I wouldn't TRY to get fired. That could backfire. And unemployment isn't a lot of money and it does run out after a set number of weeks. You also have to prove that you are actively seeking employment and they don't make it easy to get.

[badhank]

Kam and web, u make valid points, but the question is "how can i get fired". Moral and ethical reasoning aside, if you wanna get fired, its very easy to do, and gets u some cash, so without further hesitation i will give you a few ideas that range from moderate to incredibly rude

1) Dont show up, and insist that they pay you
2) as above buck insist on a raise
3) show up, but only work on ur muse on their dime
4) be a bully to ppl that u dont perticularly care for, everythign from being rude to slapping paper out of ppl's hands to delegating your work to ppl that shouldnt b doing it (while u do #3)
5) fake meltdown
6) delete important files
7) over-react angrily to anything anyone says to you by breaking monitors/computer hardware
8) write and email about everyone's dirty secrets and other nasty things (u should know some) and send it to every in the office.

Some are better for you and will eventually get u fired while u get urself set up(1-3) other will make u look like a jerk and get u out of there quicker (the rest) so its ur call. 4-8 Remember to question everything anyone says to you, talk down to ppl, and if your voice isnt contemptuous then ur not doing it as well as u could.

Enjoy the ride, dont plan it too much as u cant actually predict what will happen and remember, u didnt quit, you expect to b payed this whole time (make that clear)

[kamakiri]

Trying to get fired is a poor strategy. It is like trying to get rich by saving and
being cheap. The problem is, at the end of the day, you are cheap. Do some worst case scenarios here. What is the worst that can happen? Your crappy habits become habits. You can wake up tomorrow and quit, but you never recover from ingrained bad habits.

Either sh*t or get off the pot. Shooting for short term free lunch will do absolutely nothing to help you in your goals of a 4HWW lifestyle, and does not contribute a single positive thing to you.


Do you even have a plan for your muse? If so lets see that. Your need to prioritize things here, and not put the wagon before the horses. Having time to set you your muse while on welfare sure isn't an effective strategy.

[Thor]

great topic :rolleyes:

[dankenein]

Re-read the book. The 4HWW has nothing to do with stealing, unprofessional and inappropriate behavior, or embezzlement.

Sigh. I am a person with high integrity and would not embezzle money (DUH!). I was simply stating that it's very rare for anyone to get fired and that embezzling was the only way I've seen it happen.

It is not your employer that has those problems, it is you, and you will bring them anywhere you go.

Actually, that is not true. I've had many jobs and enjoyed most of them, but not this one. Many of my colleagues feel the same way I do. I am not exaggerating the status of things. People who explode actually get raises and are catered to. I am not making this up.

[dankenein]

Either sh*t or get off the pot. Shooting for short term free lunch will do absolutely nothing to help you in your goals of a 4HWW lifestyle, and does not contribute a single positive thing to you.

You don't appear to be very good at reading the posts to which you're replying. I DO plan to quit at the end of the year based precisely on calculations.

[badhank]

I dont understand the backlash that dankenein is getting from this post...

Look at this logically. You are in a job you plan to quit. You are being payed while there. You can time this time that you are being payed as a time to do your own legwork on some1 elses dime. Eventually you will get fired and get a bonus 2 week float.
The only downside is that you get a bad reference which you dont need since u no longer want to b chained to a job like this...

I once read a story about a man who refused to suffer his job any more, so he set out to see how he could plan his own small business (muse) while on his employers time. He eventually was fired (got the bonus 2 weeks) and became a very successful man.

Can anyone guess who im talking about? Free ice-cream if you can guess who that was

also: some1 already made up their mind as to what they want to do (which i think is a GREAT idea) and didnt ask about what you thought about it. You dont like it, dont give suggestion and word your opposition tactfully.
The question asked was how to go about it. Why would you put yourself out there and tell this person their wrong? No1 has posted any logic as to y you shouldnt get fired, its all opinion. There ARE financial advantages. There are also drawback which may or may not apply.

[badhank]

You don't appear to be very good at reading the posts to which you're replying.
well said, come guys lets keep the quality level at a certain point.

[Grayman]

I believe Seinfeld has already covered this topic in this episode. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Millennium_(Seinfeld_episode))

Just adapt George's strategies to your workplace and...no wait now that I think about it George didn't get fired at all. I guess this is one question that can't be answered by Seinfeld.

Well...he did once get fired for sleeping with the cleaning lady. How are the cleaning ladies there? ;)

[TimW]

The "advantage" of being layed off/fired is, at least in the US, you can draw unemployment benefits. If you quit, generally speaking, they are not availble to you.

But then you have to explain to any future employer why you got fired.

If I have / desire to go back into the workplace, I can honestly say that I quit because I had a shot at working my own company and being successful with that. Since many small businesses don't last more than a couple years, there's no stigma attached in it failing..if it does.

You can take the lessons learned there and use that knowledge going forward either in a corporate job or starting another company.

[badhank]

in the states do u not get 2 weeks severance pay as well?

[TimW]

Not necessarily...it's up to the employer.

[webgal]

You don't necessarily get severance in the U.S. It's not a law and it's up to the company. It hinges on how much time you have been with the company. They don't have to give you any at all. But companies like that don't have a competitive edge. And start ups which are attractive for other reasons, like getting in on the ground floor of something, rarely do offer severance.

[badhank]

wow u learn something new every day.

back to the thread topic:
dankenein hope u got some ideas for ur plan. if you need more just post and i will be happy to sit down and think of quiet, funny, and productive ways to get you sh*t canned :D

[Marcie]

I believe Seinfeld has already covered this topic in this episode. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Millennium_(Seinfeld_episode))

Just adapt George's strategies to your workplace and...no wait now that I think about it George didn't get fired at all. I guess this is one question that can't be answered by Seinfeld.

Well...he did once get fired for sleeping with the cleaning lady. How are the cleaning ladies there? ;)

That was funny :)

Let's play nice, though, folks.

I've also heard it's near impossible to get fired from the govt....how about taking advantage of the "freedom" part of your job and planning to quit one day?

[Caesar_X]

I've been lucky enough to be laid off 3 times in the past 7 years, for a total of 20 weeks of severance pay (+ accumulated PTO payout).

But if I wasn't in a position like that, I wouldn't recommend "trying" to get fired. Your two options have already been said; either just get up and leave (but give them two weeks notice) or stay there and spend as much time as you can working on your muse while you are getting paid.

I'd go with option #2 unless the job really is unbearable.

[lovinglife]

In the US, if an emploer can prove that it had a right to fire you due your actions, you can be denied unemployemnt. I have seen it happen. Unless you are let go due to no fault of your own (laid off because of cut-backs, company goes out of business, etc), you are not guaranteed to get unemployment compensation.

[dking]

While unemployment is an option if you do get fired, I firmly believe that you are all looking at this wrong. Why burn bridges?

Besides all the shiny happy things that could be said involving puppies, rainbows, and social contracts of morality, you may need them down the line for your muse. It seems to me that if you give up and take the bridge-burning option, it may bite you down the line.

I am thinking that prudence would suggest that you at least try to be civil to the people involved, if only so you can leverage them later, or at least not have them against you.

What do you think?

[webgal]

I dislike this thread intensely! It had settled to being way down the list and wandering aimlessly toward obscurity. Caesar, you are guilty of bringing it back to life. But your advice is sound, so you are forgiven. And that which follows is, too.

[Drew Kime]

I've never seen severance pay anyplace I've worked. Why do you think so many Americans are so desperate to get out of the rat race?

[final_id]

I think Kamakiri's response is mildly over-the-top, in that it's fueled by a righteous indignation against a petition which, essentially, takes business at face value rather than assuming the value-laden North American position that profit and busy-work are, in themselves, morally good behaviors. I'm surprised that this kind of with-the-herd assumption can continue at a website related to 4HWW, since one of the greatest benefits of the book (in my opinion) is that it aids us in getting OUT of the typical North American value-laden assumptions about the fact that we "have to" do work in a certain way.

My opinion's quite different. Here's what I feel: If the guy wants to get fired, he can get fired! And if he wants to act lazy and either (A.) keep his job but be lazy at it the whole time, thus gaining the opportunity to work less or (B.) raise the ire of his superiors and get booted, thus gaining the opportunity to work less, then ... either way he gets what he wants. Essentially, when you take the employee-to-employer relationship as an adversarial one, you start to recognize (as does Tim in 4HWW) that the working situation can exploit the employee unless he fights back. Little "moral" things like the presumption that one MUST work "as hard as one can" or "all the time on the job" (or else one is a "bad worker") get perpetuated even though they're not, actually, part of the mandatory moral order of the universe at all.

The freedom one gains from this new 4HWW-based perspective (that, essentially, work-for-work's-sake is idiotic) is, that one can indeed ask for what one wants. And maybe get it. I'd say, to the original poster, you should just start marching in and demanding what you want. You want to come in at 11? Come in at 11! Tell 'em you will. Then do it. Be honest and direct (because otherwise the subterfuge and falsehood can amount to criminal fraud, if you do it wrong) but also be demanding. If they fire you for it, then congratulations! You lost your job! If they don't, then congratulations! You have better working conditions!

By approaching the workplace from a perspective of plenty rather than scarcity, you gain all sorts of mental advantages. If you think in terms of there being a never-ending supply of profit-making opportunities, and there being a never-ending supply of ways to improve upon your current desultory situation, then you start to look at your boss entirely differently. Instead of thinking, "Golly, gotta look like I'm working!" and running off like a scared rabbit to do pointless photocopying, you think, "I can do what I want." And you end up doing it, being more productive for the organization, living in a happier mental space all 'round. They get more of what they're paying for, and you get to do more of what you like, while they're paying you. If, on the other hand, you continue to live in fear, listening to that "you should be working harder" voice drone on in your head, then you haven't learned much from 4HWW. Don't work hard; work smart. Don't ever do what "you're supposed to do" without examining WHY we've all culturally agreed that it is what we're supposed to do. Maybe it has advantages; maybe in your particular instance it doesn't.

By the way, I know the type of academic work environment you're describing. The way pettiness, and failure, seem almost to be courted and rewarded. It isn't, EXACTLY, that they're deliberately going out of their way to find the worst workers and laud praise and promote them. It's just, that the environment is such that "no good deed goes unpunished." The ineptitudes mount. The dolts get to run things. The little situations drive you crazy. Most major research institutions have this kind of "I used to be a teacher of Linguistics so it's obvious that I know all about capital fundraising and amortizing the coffee maker contract, make me Chair."

[Frank]

It sounds like Dankenein is looking for a free ride.

Unemployment compensation is not money that just falls from the air. It comes from taxpayers and your employer (funded mainly by the student tuitions at your university, no doubt).

He is basically asking us to give him money so he can pursue things he'd rather be doing. What's the difference between being mugged and paying unemployment to someone who wheedled his way into it?

I prefer to give my money to people who really need it.

[dking]

It sounds like Dankenein is looking for a free ride.
....

I prefer to give my money to people who really need it.

Yet if you are an American, you will pay taxes for it either way. So no matter what you want statistically, its going to go to one of the followng:

1. A guy who wants to increase world employment rates and stimulate the economy that is motivated enough at doing so that he is willing to get himself fired in order to pass that commitment test.
2. A single mother with 5 kids from 8 guys that does not want a job becuase its easier to beat her kids and use them for pity money.
3. A guy who wants to drink himself to death and shoot up heroin instead of work.
4. A gang member who sells drugs on the street corner to supplement his government check.
5. A disabled widower who served, and is a veteran in the military.

.. so personally given the choice, I would rather my taxes go to 1 or 5.

[badhank]

While unemployment is an option if you do get fired, I firmly believe that you are all looking at this wrong. Why burn bridges?

Besides all the shiny happy things that could be said involving puppies, rainbows, and social contracts of morality, you may need them down the line for your muse. It seems to me that if you give up and take the bridge-burning option, it may bite you down the line.

I have burnt a few bridges, and I have never regretted it once. In fact, due to my personality, not ripping on certain people have led to sleepless nights and regrets. If you can justify doing it, not just for the hell of it, DO IT. Slashing a single tire can provide closure and relieve all your stress. Its better than displacing your anger on loved ones or bottling it up and until it becomes a metal disease at some point.

[webgal]

I had a coworker towed for parking in a handicap spot with a freaking ski rack on the top of his car. He'd been doing it for over 6 months so he could park with the big brass-- because he thought he was big brass. But he was big brass without the br. Now THAT is justified. Vandalism isn't.

[Lachlan]

There are certainly individuals who follow this lifestyle path. I saw it much more commonly in the Netherlands, but here is a rather lengthy (4,000 word) example from the US.

Doing More With Less; In defense of creative loafing (http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/display.php?id=34682)

I’ve been on unemployment three times in the past six years. Each time was better than the last, and each time I stayed on until the last cent was exhausted. I didn’t even try to get a job; it was a paid vacation. This is somewhat unusual from what I can tell...

It is much more Palahniuk than Thoreau.

[JFrenzel]

Webgal,

Question for you... ARE YOU MARKETING YOUR OWN PRODUCT ONLINE, B/C I SEE THAT HYPERLINK EVERY TIME YOU COMMENT. WHATS UP WITH THAT?


JOSE

[JFrenzel]

Huh, nevermind. I did figure it out. You are marketing your own product, with all do respect why is that so?


Jose

[webgal]

Huh, nevermind. I did figure it out. You are marketing your own product, with all do respect why is that so?


Jose

I actually changed the newer sig to my blog which has tons of free info because the same thing occurred to me. When you change your signature, it isn't retroactive on this forum so the older signatures still have that evil link.

But I do spend HOURS moderating this site and eliminating spammers for $0. I've also spent time dispensing a lot of free advice as well. So shoot me.

[badhank]

I actually changed the newer sig to my blog which has tons of free info because the same thing occurred to me.

...

But I do spend HOURS moderating this site and eliminating spammers for $0. I've also spent time dispensing a lot of free advice as well. So shoot me.

We are all free to post our (non affiliate) sites in the sig, no?

Also, lets talk more about getting fired, did the thread started do it or chicken out? updates?

[ChicHippie]

I am also in the same boat. There have been a rash of lay offs at my job and every time I am "spared". I have never been laid off/fired from a job so the thought of it sends me into a panic. Lately, I find myself wanting to be the next to go. My biggest quarrel is that my workload has tripled in the last year without a decent raise and a bunch of promotions to clearly unqualified people. I am the "go-to" person for many different departments and because I am somewhat of a people pleaser, I say yes to way too much. I don't want to quit out of fear of running out of money before I land my next job (even though I do have a little cushion.) I know for a fact that my company gives severance (I've heard about 5 weeks for a similar position to mine.)

My next course of action is to 1) propose that I work at home 2 days a week but doubt they will approve it. If that doesn't pan out, 2) I will have to resort to lowering my productivity. And if they still keep me on, 3) I will have to bite the bullet and quit...for my own sanity.

[fduijts]

I loved everything about the book--it confirmed many thoughts I'd been having as well as (gasp!) gave practical strategies and advice! However, one section that really intrigued me was the advantages of being fired (unemployment) over quitting. I wanted more details on how to make this happen. Seriously. I am poised to quit my beyond-repair job at the end of the year, regardless, but would much prefer the quiet firing.

Unfortunately, I work at an elite university where raises are NOT merit-based (so cutting back on productivity is not a fireable offense) and it's damn near impossible to be fired (you need to embezzle large amounts of money and I don't have access to finances!). Further, unprofessional and inappropriate behavior on the smaller scale (things that would be considered harassment other places) actually seems to be rewarded, not punished. Hard work, smarts, and integrity seem to be punished.

Any ideas? I suspect I'm just going to have to pull the trigger myself.


I don't get you... You work in a place where it doesn't matter what you do, it won't get you fired. What is considered bad behavior at other companies is rewarded there and people who blow out get raises. Why on earth would you want to leave? Stay there and work on your muse. If this gets you fired you got your muse up and running, if it doesn't get you fired you got the money from that 'job' and money from your muse. If you want to make it really fun, see how far you can go. Move your stuff to an empty office and make it your own, tell your boss your need an assistend and make her do your work ,show up late or not at all and if your boss disagrees tell him you are overwhelmed by stress do to the company culture and need a fully paid year of absence. That is... if you want to make it fun :D

[cvfoss]

I thought he said he was gonna quit anyways and was looking to get fired to help soften the transition.

The one thing I'd say is check back on any contracts you signed when you were hired. Some companies have clauses that any work you do while employed with them they own. I don't know how often they get away with enforcing it, but it might be something to think about.

Otherwise, I follow the advice given above. Ride it out and take as many liberties as you can. I know with me, once I decided I was leaving my last job I stopped stressing out about being late or taking long lunches. I started enjoying life a little more. I also spent a lot of time learning and researching stuff (they can't own my knowledge).

[JFrenzel]

So how many more pro active comments will arrive?????

[badhank]

yea what happened with all of this, please say my advice was followed

[aho2zds]

I've been in the same position as the Original Post describes, just a different type of employer (big box home improvement store). They didn't value hard work, or deliberately taking on more responsibility -- at least in any way that they would financially reward this type of behavior. So I started spending every free second of mine ruthlessly carrying out what I learned from the 4HWW, a la Tim Ferriss. I was absolutely offended when interrupted (even though I was on the company's time). It's hard to Eliminate or 80/20 anything when you work in big retail, and God knows I tried... :) So I just became as invisible as possible. I could never get fired for not doing my job though. I've since quit and started working on my muse, while living off of self-employed seasonal, modeling, and construction gigs.

It's painfully easy to work on your own stuff while at 'work'. But that's stealing. You have an agreement w/ your employer to do 'X' for $'Y'. If you're still getting paid, but you're working on a muse, then you've faulted on your end of the agreement. This is different than Tim's ice-cream store story. He got all his work done, and literally had nothing more productive to do.

I'm not judging anybody. Like I said, I did the same thing. But it was more to my advantage to just quit and have no reason to get upset (somebody interrupting my muse-related escapades). And it sounds like you could be in the same position.

I think Tim highlights the benefits of getting fired to help us readers do a little Fear-Setting and picture a worst-case scenario. But that's not what he's trying to get us to aspire to. Kamakiri has a great point in that unemployment benefits, as a goal is incredibly short-sighted.

Personally, I don't understand why everybody thinks that having a job and creating a muse are oil/water exclusive. If you're spending even a couple of hours each morning/evening before/after work, the muse will happen. So my advice is to go to work, and do what you agreed to do to actually earn your salary. Then kill it when you get home to actually generate some momentum w/ your muse.

On a side note, I think one of the most entertaining ways to intentionally get fired from any job is to just start showing up really drunk. Don't change anything else. Try to do your job well, and the required results will follow. Let a colleage in on it to secretly record some of the action/conversations for some youtube entertainment later...

[SmartLife]

I would like to get fired from my job too. It would give me some much needed termination pay for a few months at my full salary. I also believe in character. I can't sacrifice my character and purposely put myself in a position where I am looked down upon in such a negative light that I am fired. A lay off is different - though the same as above applies.

Be careful if you go down this road. Are you sure you want to sacrifice your character? Also, remember that in some circumstances, if you are fired for certain extraordinary reasons (look them up in your state/area) the employer may not be required to give you any termincation pay. You may or may not still be able to get unemployment benefits