The Unusual ROI of Going Green: From Saving to Eco-Friendly Index Funds that Beat the Market

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Bestselling author David Bach used to use Flonase, Alegra D, and Singulair. He used Advair for almost ten years before he made one change that eliminated all of these medications.

He moved into a The Solaire, a green-optimized building in NYC.

Going green is something we all know we should do, but somehow most of us never quite get around to it, unless an accident or experiment shows us clear personal benefits. David moved into The Solaire for the location, for example, not the green effect.

But what if you could help the world by being self-interested? Self-interest and contribution need not be mutually exclusive, after all.

It can be done…

David should save about $30,000 in 2008 based on simple changes, and those saved expenses can be applied to investments. This is where things get interesting (and compelling); remember that $30,000 in expenses could equate to as much as $50,000 in pre-tax income for some.

Imagine if you could:

• Save $250 per year simply with smart landscaping. Strategically planting trees and shrubs to shade your home can lower surrounding air temperatures during warm summer months by up to 9 degrees Fahrenheit and can reduce wall and roof temperatures by 200 to 400 F, reducing energy costs for cooling and home carbon emissions by 3,952 lbs per year.

• Save $798 a year when you perform regular maintenance on your car to keep it running efficiently. Properly inflated tires, for example, can keep 5,800 pounds of carbon from entering the air each year.

These steps, and dozens of others, are all viable but little-known. General Electric has saved $6.5 million in electricity costs per year simply by changing its computers’ settings. This can, and does, translate to a personal level.

Saving only motivates so far, of course.

Suppose you invested the money saved in each 365 period automatically–$3,758 is one average figure offered by Bach–in a green mutual fund yielding 10% annually. This compounds to more than $700,000 after 30 years; $745,560.24 according to the calculator I used.

Legendary venture capital impresario John Doerr has stated he believes green technologies and companies represent trillions in investment opportunities, whereas the dot-com boom represented mere billions. Given that Al Gore just announced a $300-million-dollar media campaign to educate consumers about global warming and green action–which dwarfs even the original anti-smoking campaigns–the conditions are certainly well set for it.

To catch the “green investment wave,” Bach suggests in his new book that one invest in the new breed of SRI (Socially Responsible Investing) index funds and exchange-traded mutual funds (ETFs) that screen out companies that engage in ethically and environmentally destructive practices and screen in those that have embraced sustainability and have demonstrated a strong sense of environmental and social responsibility.

While the number of “green funds” available will explode in the coming years, many of the funds already available have outperformed the S&P 500.

Here are some simple starting points that David recommends in Go Green, Live Rich:

• If you are eligible for a 401(k) plan at work, find out if your “investment menu” includes a green fund. If it doesn’t, speak to your plan administrator (usually someone in your company’s human resources department) and express your interest in having an SRI or a green fund added to your choices.

• Begin researching a few green funds (some of the best funds currently available are listed below). Many green funds have posted double-digit returns, and some were up over 30 percent in 2007. This does not mean you should invest your entire retirement savings in a green fund. Many of these funds are narrowly focused and volatile. Others are more broadly diversified. So before you invest, do your research carefully and consider green investing as a piece of your overall financial plan and diversification. A great place to start your research is at www.Morningstar.com, which evaluates funds, their diversification, and their levels of risk.

• Find out how your current investment holdings perform in terms of sustainability by visiting Climate Counts, a nonprofit organization funded by Stoneyfield Farm, Inc. that brings together companies and consumers in the fight against global warming. Climate Counts provides a scorecard for companies in eight sectors based on their commitment to fighting global warming.

• Find a financial planner who specializes in socially responsible investing. Go to Social Investments Forum and click on “individual investors” to find a financial services directory and other tools.

Here are some of the top “green funds” that Bach suggests researching:

Calvert Funds is one of the largest active managers of SRI mutual funds, offering both index-based and actively managed socially conscious funds. Calvert Large Cap Growth Fund [symbol: CLGAX] has outperformed the S&P 500 over the last five years.

• Launched in 2001, Winslow Green Growth [symbol: WGGFX] is annually the best performing green fund over the past five years. This small-growth fund invests in domestic companies that that are either in specific green sectors or have shown strong environmental responsibility. Its creators are about to launch a second green fund, called the Winslow Green Solutions Fund.

• Founded in 1982, The New Alternatives Fund [symbol: NJALFX] holds companies—both overtly green and less visibly so—that it believes “have a positive impact on the environment.” Many of its holdings are in the renewable-energy space, but it also invests in natural foods companies (like Whole Foods) and those involved in clean water and clean air.

Green Century Funds manages two green funds. Started in 1991, they offer the Green Century Equity Fund [symbol: GCEQX] and Green Century Balanced Fund [symbol: GCLBX]. Both funds seek to track the Domini 400 Social Index Fund, which screens out companies involved in socially or ethically unacceptable areas (alcohol, tobacco, firearms, etc.) and screens in companies with positive environmental, social and governance (ESG) performance. Green Century is nonprofit and promises that its fees and profits are used to preserve and protect the environment.

Powershares Wilderhill Clean Energy [symbol: PBW] is an exchange-traded fund (ETF) that focuses on companies that promote cleaner energy. Founded in March 2005, the fund seeks to mirror the Wilder Hill Clean Energy Index. Other “green” ETFs currently available include WilderHill Progressive Energy Portfolio [symbol: PUW], which focuses on companies that that provide technologies that improve the use of existing fossil fuels, PowerShares Cleantech Portfolio [symbol: PZD], Claymore/LGA Green ETF [symbol: GRN], Van Eck Global Alternative Energy ETF [symbol: GEX] and First Trust NASDAQ Clean Edge ETF [symbol: QCLN].

###

The sad reality is this: “saving the world” is too long-term and nebulous to convince most people to take the first step.

Sacrifice 30 minutes of extra sleep on the weekend to deal with Zipcar vs. pull the car out of the garage? Spend 1-2 hours to replace all the bulbs in the house? Not going to happen.

Saving money is also often not a sufficient motivator. But increasing portfolio returns vs. other investment vehicles while significantly improving health, all of which can start with testing the effects of one green change?

Even the busiest and most distracted will make green decisions if it’s that simple. Being self-interested can be selfless, and the timing is good.

Do your own due diligence as with all things, but consider making taking one small step, whether in your life or in your portfolio.

In other words: get to experimenting.

Posted on: April 6, 2008.

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76 comments on “The Unusual ROI of Going Green: From Saving to Eco-Friendly Index Funds that Beat the Market

  1. Investors lost billions in the dot-com bubble; now they have a chance to lose trillions. The problem with investing in a hot new industry is that it’s nearly impossible to predict the winners. Scores of auto manufacturers existed in the U.S. in the 1920s, but only those who invested in Ford or GM made money.

    Like

  2. You continue to speak my language, Tim! A sustainable system is the solution!

    I’ve started taking the bus to get to work.
    No, I don’t save on gas money (despite the high price of gas)
    No, it doesn’t ‘save me time’…. but, here’s what I say Yes to:

    * I can save on insurance premiums
    * save on the wear and tear on my car.
    * I can nap/read a book/meditate instead of driving in bumper-to-bumper traffic.
    * I reduce emissions.
    * I get to enjoy the sidewalk musicians as I transfer through downtown Portland.
    * it forces me to get my work done on time
    * I get exercise if I take the bike along

    It’s a no brainer, really. The ROI, indeed, is unusual.

    I’d like to also comment on another intangible benefit:
    Once I started taking the bus/train, I more consciously realized how we are *all* ants marching.

    Like

  3. @Dennis…..That is true but, in my opinion, investing in green funds is going to be a lot safer than the dot com or auto bubble because there is so much more room for various companies. With solar, wind, hydrogen, low voc paints, organic cleaning products, to sustainable building materials companies. You should be able to find a fund that is spread out a bit more and not in just one industry so your money will be protected while giving you a really good chance at making some big gains.

    I may be wrong but, some of the biggest investment trouble with the dot com and auto bubbles was with people not diversifying. Thay put all their eggs in one basket so to speak.

    Like

  4. I’m all for sustainability – have no car, have done the changing lightbulbs thing, probably about 50% of my consulting work deals with green buildings, etc. But I agree with Dennis – in addition to the potential greenwashing issue, these green funds/companies have bubble written all over them … I personally am treading carefully. (There’s also something to be said for taking dividends/profits from un-green firms and spending them on living a sustainable lifestyle, no?)

    Like

  5. I agree. I’m in LA and have recently stopped driving most days. I’m considering selling the car. If I take the plunge, I will save on gas, car insurance, maintenance, parking, parking tickets, smog tests, vehicle registration, and time. Not bad at all!

    Also, just making a conscious effort to buy less stuff in general can help the environment while saving money for bigger and better things.

    Like

  6. Great info! My heart goes pitter-patter as my children (Hi kids in the future, you guys are so cute. Mommy could just eat you!) will have the opportunity to thrive and not clean up too many of our past messes with more people investing in green markets of trade. Although cleaning up builds character I would want my kids and my grandkids to be able to breathe and swim and beget more of my crazy lineage with less problems in that department.

    I agree most will not change easily unless the “Joneses” start giving up their God awful Hummers and the neighbors follow suit and prices for green improvements go down for the common man. I am hopeful for our future and still do my part by using Terra Pass to offset my Hyundai’s footprint. I say live consciously but try not to beat up oneself as if you’re dammed if you don’t recycle a straw. Balance is key!

    Tim, I hope you offset your travel! ;)

    Hugs,
    Jen

    Like

  7. Tim-

    I appreciate your effort to make “going green” palatable by realizing what people truly will and won’t do in the interest of being better citizens of the earth.

    That said, my wish is that you don’t go too far into the global warming or artificial climate change religions to justifiy doing things for a cleaner, more energy efficient society. I am all for applying effort toward those objectives, but I don’t go for the guilt associated with the American lifestyle and the holier than thou attitude perpetrated by people who think driving a Hummer is more evil than roasting children on a spit.

    The science of the Earth’s climate is revised by the hour and it always strikes me as a little odd that so many people/governments are willing to spend trillions of dollars to reverse something that we don’t even completely understand. Notice how the explanations of the effects that humans have on the earth keeps changing as we get new information. The “artificial climate change experts” keep modifying their explanations to fit the crime. I am in awe of your efforts in Africa and elsewhere but I think that while the U.S. people are being given the mother of all guilt trips about how we live our lives (Not by you, but by the climate alarmists Though you are supporting the notion of artificial climate change by saying things like “carbon footprint.”) it takes our focus off of the more immediate, quatifiable, and simple things we can do to save lives today. Stamping out malaria by providing drugs to people that die from it everyday even though it is very treatable is a great place to start. It’s an opportunity cost that we can not afford.

    Many people (especially Gore) and countries tend to make billions off of the carbon trading game that allow companies to sin but find a way for salvation. It reminds me of why Martin Luther broke away from the church.

    From Wikipedia, ” John or Johann Tetzel (1465 – 11 August 1519) was a German Dominican friar remembered for selling indulgences and apocryphally for speaking the couplet “As soon as a coin in the coffer rings / the rescued soul from purgatory springs.”[1]

    I for one hope that as you offer up your great advice on how to live one’s best life and that it does not entail asking your readers to buy into an area of science that is so far from resolved.

    I read your blog often and I wish there were more people like you in the world. Keep up the great work!

    Like

  8. I agree that there is significant profit to be made from green technologies, but for the average person I don’t think it’s anywhere in the stock market. Firstly, look at the volatility. Secondly, it’s in US DOLLARS.

    If I make 400% annual returns and become a billionaire, yet eating lunch costs a billion dollars, then inflation (declining currency value) has made my earnings worthless.

    Although hiring a financial planner is easier than becoming a sophisticated investor yourself, I think this is one area where it’s absolutely necessary for an individual to make good use of all the extra time they have reclaimed in there lives from applying 4HWW… one of the few things your can’t outsource is creating and protecting wealth for YOURSELF.

    Like

  9. @Tim:

    “Save $250 per year simply with smart landscaping. Strategically planting trees and shrubs to shade your home…”

    That $250 will be totally wiped out by that strategic planting, surely? Either (a) you’re putting in new trees, which will take years to grow and therefore you won’t see any end result until then, or (b) you’re digging up fully-grown trees from somewhere else, therefore damaging the ecosystem of that area to support your own. Which, meantime, will cost a small fortune.

    Trees, new or old, are expensive. I support the overall notion of this post but a lot of it is a bit like robbing Peter to pay Paul.

    ###

    Hi Sheamus,

    You’d have to ask David for the details, but speaking as someone who has sold trees before, it doesn’t necessarily damage the ecosystem to transplant trees, if done correctly and with preservation in mind. There are plenty of people happy to do damage, but I suspect that this concern with create more and more suppliers who have a good answer to this.

    Just my 2 cents — good observation,

    Tim

    Like

  10. Tim,

    Great stuff and I enjoy the balanced and realistic approach you discuss. On the topic of investing, I hope that we all strive to combine the art of investing in “green” and investing to make money. Chris Arnold, on NPR, had a great interview on April 3rd with Yale’s endowment investing guru David Swensen. It is certainly something worthwhile to check out, considering Yale saw a 28% (or $5 Billion) return on it’s investments last year.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89324244

    Keep up the great work, Tim. Always enjoyable.

    Like

  11. I don’t understand the neanderthal resistance to green choices. I think that as @blogrdoc pointed out, when you make green lifestyle choices you shift your perspective in the same way that 4HWW choices punch holes in the status quo. When you stop consuming as much, start looking at the planet as something to resource, and stop the cycle of earn-buy-waste-burn fuel you realize that you (hurray!) don’t have to be stuck in a job because of a regular paycheck. As Tim is suggesting, experiments all around green choices are in your own self-interest. They are incredibly freeing and very consistent with 4HWW ideals.

    One tiny example: right now, if your relationship with your electrical bill is a monthly obligation, you have to manage that to take a mini-retirement. But if you take a short-term gig with the purpose of earning to install solar panels, you cut that monthly obligation. You might even passively earn income. Talk about outsourcing.

    Like

  12. I can’t think of a better cause, quite frankly, to invest in. I’m sorry, but we won’t have to worry about Malaria or any other “cause” if/when the Earth becomes uninhabitable (for humans, that is, the mosquitos will live longer than we do). I think enough of the scientific community is in agreement on this one. Read this article, looks like Malaria and lots of other diseases are being perpetuated by…none other than…GLOBAL WARMING:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20080407/cm_huffpost/095331

    Like

  13. You can save A LOT of green by going green. It’s interesting how despite all the money saved, people are still reluctant to go eco friendly. Is it because of the initial costs of do so?

    -Andrew

    Like

  14. Tree farms are meant for farming trees to plant in your yard. Buying from them won’t disturb the ecosystem, and the costs of the tree will be reclaimed from saved energy costs.

    Global warming not a real science but an artificial religion? Uhm, read about the ice shelf that just broke off, decades before it was predicted to break off. It’s not necessarily a ‘I am better than you’ attitude, but sometimes people need that wakeup call to take action. I feel like some don’t want to take action until it directly affects them, and by then, it’s too late.

    I’m not sure why some commenters are quick to point out ‘flaws’ when just a little thinking outside of the box is required to come to a resolution.

    I, for one, like this post, as it seems to be the first post (correct me if I’m wrong) that discusses financial investment and ecological awareness, both which are largely not discussed in the book.

    Like

  15. I’ve found a great ROI has been to move 2 miles away from my office and bike to work. Daily (additional) exercise, virtually guaranteed travel time (one time got a flat, jogged home in 15 minutes), no waiting for the bus, no car needed. When it rains I wear a rain coat.

    Over the course of a year (been doing this since July in DC area, 4 seasons) I’ll ride a 1,000 miles (250 work days, 4 miles/day) instead of driving it. Oh, I also save $100/mo in parking fees.

    Used to drive 45 min to work, deal with traffic. Just can’t imagine doing that any more.

    Still working on attaining a 4HWW!

    Like

  16. @akthe47:

    “Uhm, read about the ice shelf that just broke off, decades before it was predicted to break off”

    The Wilkins ice shelf that broke off was an event. It may even be attributed to the warming of the earth, but how do you definitively say that it was because of human caused global warming? Did the earth not warm to get us out of several ice ages before the first Hummer rolled off of the production line?

    What level of certainty can you put on any scientific prediction about the earth’s climate when less than a few decades ago “scientific experts” were predicting an ice age? New data recently has suggested that the earth has been cooling for the last decade. How could that be if we’ve pumped more carbon dioxide into the atomosphere in the last ten years than any other time in human history? The answer; we don’t know. My point is that this debate in our society has reached a fever pitch that distracts from real world solutions to problems that we know exist and can be fixed.Finally, how do we gauge what is good and bad about global warming whether or not it is caused by humans? It could be that we lose a couple miles of shoreline around some countries but the African deserts all turn into lush gardens providing an increase in the standard of living for all who live in the region saving millions of lives in the process. There is just no way to know for sure. This issue is not simple, it is an asymmetric one that requires much more analysis before trillions of dollars are committed at the behest of those who stand to gain the most. Better to get people interested in a healthier lifestyle for themselves and their communities than use guilt to make people do what you want. It might work initially, but that strategy always backfires in the end.

    Like

  17. 4HWW covered by The Times (London)

    http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article3668262.ece

    ###

    Thanks, Jake! The writer is very good and quite funny but he does — in the interest of appearing “balanced”, I suppose — indicate that I don’t address when people love their jobs or how they can, etc. This is totally incorrect, of course, as I spend the portions of a few chapters and “Filling the Void” discussing exactly this topic, as well as the practical implications of meaning and other existential issues.

    Lots of journalists do this type of selective omission to create drama in pieces, some form of conflict. It makes for spirited reading, but it’s not always factually correct.

    Cheers :)

    Tim

    Like

  18. Hi Jaq – do you drive a hummer? I actually prefer the Denali, since it is an anagram of DENIAL. Seriously, isn’t it pretty well-known that the scientific community is (for the most part) in agreement on this one?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change

    I’m not trying to guilt anyone, I think people can do whatever the heck they want, since I believe in karma so strongly. But this topic is dear to my heart, since I happen to like living on this Earth and I’d like for future generations to be able to so as well. Anyway, Tim talks about this (briefly) in 4HWW – I feel like you are here distracting people away from a very important topic that is clearly important to him…not trying to start a debate, in fact that’s all I have to say about that :) Have a nice day! ~Marcie

    Like

  19. Ah there may be in-fighting among the Ferrissites…

    Jaq I think you may have guilt issues as he continuously pleading his case for people not try to make him feel guilty about his choices. The only person that can make you feel guilty Jaq, is you. Even if your opinion of human activity is not the cause of climate change, does it really matter? Is that even the point of Tim’s post? Offering options to make ROI in your lifestyle in a green way. Take what works for you and leave the rest. If you want to pay high prices for your toys be it, cars, food, and the like enjoy that, we all do. Eventually natural resources will be gone that is a fact, might not be our generation but will be in the ever elusive future. That might not dissuade you or “us” from personal pleasure now but I doesn’t hurt anybody to do make conscious choices to consume less, think of sustainable options, to purchase alternative sources that help produce healthier food, water, and air for the next 5, 10, even 20 years.

    In my opinion Hummers aren’t the most attractive cars and the gas is insane. I would say go for the splash with a Audi R8 its way hotter than a Hummer! :)

    Can’t we all just get along and make lots of money in the green stock market! I am sure most will enjoy a little more green in their pockets. :)

    Hugs,
    Jen

    Like

  20. JBH (shortened your name to reduce my carbon footprint while typing your name… oops now I’ve gone and used more by typing this explanation. Anyone selling any carbon credits on ebay?)

    (It’s a joke.)

    Look, I think you and I are on the same page and believe me I do not feel any guilt regarding my lifestyle. (And no, I do not have a Hummer or R8.)

    My point is that if people like Tim, who want to inspire others on how to live a quality life rooted in the potential of our individual and collective humanity, they should (IMHO) avoid terms invented by any entity (Government, Corporations, Orgs w/ an agenda) that try to shape our thoughts as a society for their advantage.

    In one of your posts above you state; ” I agree most will not change easily unless the “Joneses” start giving up their God awful Hummers and the neighbors follow suit and prices for green improvements go down for the common man. I am hopeful for our future and still do my part by using Terra Pass to offset my Hyundai’s [carbon] footprint.”

    Now before the movie, “An Inconvenient Truth” did you ever utter the phrase “carbon footprint?” (Or “Terra Pass” for that matter).” Did Tim? Did anyone? Carbon Footprint is a political term designed to inculcate the masses to the yet unresolved science around artificial climate change. That is why I used the term guilt when I perhaps should use the word discriminate. Political Correctness has a new arrow in the quiver and its name is Carbon Footprint. Mark my words there will be significant groups, tax law advantages, etcetera, that will base their rules of acceptance on your CF number. To me that is just a tad frightening.

    Hugs,

    Jaq

    Like

  21. If I see another ad promoting solar power, corn powered hair dryers, or electric cars(whose environmental cost of manufacturing far outweighs any actual realized green savings) –I’m gonna puke. :0)

    IMHO, much of the green movement is more about politics and power than it is about actually saving the earth. Mostly pseudo science and researchers who need funding to keep jobs. See: http://www.icecap.us

    We need to stop using buzzwords like “green” and start thinking about what these words actually mean and who is selling us on what to do.

    Anyway, thanks Tim for your book– it was a great read.

    Like

  22. The only way that green lifestyles will ever be adopted is if they save resources on the individual level. People don’t change their behavior much for abstract and vague ideals, but they are quite ready to alter it when they feel a pinch in the pocketbook. I’ve been a long-time student of economics, and the behavioral patterns behind polution are fascinating. No really great solution exists to convince people not to pollute, but making it in the individual’s best financial interest is the best place to start. If there is one thing I’ve learned in my studies, it is that incentives matter. When the incentive to act exists, then people will do it. I just hope the gain people can experience outweighs any loses, or else I won’t expect to see this catch on soon.

    I would be interested to see the long term performance of many of these funds. Ten percent nominal returns is about average historically for the stock market, so there is not necessarily a clear reason to make the switch. (Unchanged returns + cost of research and transferral = net loss for investor.) The dot-com bubble and the housing bubble showed returns for in excess of 10% in some cases, which is a good sign of unsustainable growth. If these funds are making only average stock market returns, then they are probably decently stable and not part of an upcoming bubble. (I would be wary of any that show extraordinary growth.)

    Like

  23. Once again, logic dictates for me to try to ask the better question. I have no interest in debating the science behind whether or not global warming is real. No matter how far I look into the science, I still won’t really know the definitive answer.

    However, if I accept the unknown, and still place the responsibility of my choices directly on my own shoulders and in my own ethical framework (not pointing fingers at scientists or politicians to try to answer things for me), then I am going to err on the side of caution as often as is feasible.

    The wonderful thing about most of the green debate is that even if global warming isn’t real, we’ll effectively do no harm by assuming it is.

    Contrast this with the debate over vaccination. If, for instance, I am deliberating whether or not to vaccinate my child, and I am unsure what to believe, the stakes are high because of my uncertainty. My child could be harmed by the vaccination itself, or could be harmed for the lack of it. My conscience would have trouble resting until I knew the outcome. In this example, I would know the outcome within my lifetime.

    However, with many of the green topics up for discussion here, there are no tangible downsides when erring on the side of caution. Especially if we’re noting that on an individual scale these pro-green choices can be made affordably. My conscience would have no trouble resting without knowing the outcome in this arena–which is great–since I likely will not understand the ramifications of my actions in this lifetime and must take comfort in my own convictions.

    Like

  24. @ Jennifer
    “Ferrissites”… I think you may have just coined a new term yourself.

    @Jaq
    “Mark my words there will be significant groups, tax law advantages, etcetera, that will base their rules of acceptance on your CF number.”

    Interesting concerns. I guess you don’t have to just sit back and let it happen. Get involved in trying to shape things as you’d want them to be or not be.

    @DJ and @Tom
    “IMHO, much of the green movement is more about politics and power than it is about actually saving the earth.”
    “they are quite ready to alter it when they feel a pinch in the pocketbook.”

    I think you underestimate simple people making simple choices for themselves and their families. Most of the people I know who are making personal efforts to be ecologically responsible have been initially motivated by their or their family’s health. The will to thrive physically is probably as strong a motivation as any.

    Like

  25. Hello All,

    Just peeking in. Awesome discussion on all sides. I actually do think that Jaq has some very valid observations about the moneyball political aspect of things.

    That said, I’m not suggesting we all “greenwash” ourselves (that’s a joke, folks) and believe that BP (British Petroleum, now “Beyond Petroleum”) is now out to save the earth with flash commercial involving flowers and dancing little children.

    I am just suggesting that using rational self-interest while reducing consumption is plain good sense, better for health, and financially beneficial.

    Now, back to the debates! :)

    Tim

    Like

  26. @Raina

    “The wonderful thing about most of the green debate is that even if global warming isn’t real, we’ll effectively do no harm by assuming it is.”

    I would disagree with this Raina. If the media hype machine whips people into a frenzy and governments and communities start making decisions based on an assumption that is far from proven then finite resources and attention will be diverted from 100% real problems like cancer, AIDS, malaria in developing countries, etc. This is called an opportunity cost. It’s what you miss out on when you’re off jack-o-lope hunting. Doing something that makes you feel good (based on other people’s expectations perhaps?) as opposed to actually doing good with measurable results is wasted effort.

    @Raina

    “@Jaq
    “Mark my words there will be significant groups, tax law advantages, etcetera, that will base their rules of acceptance on your CF number.”

    Interesting concerns. I guess you don’t have to just sit back and let it happen. Get involved in trying to shape things as you’d want them to be or not be.”

    Who says I am sitting back Raina?

    Like

  27. I think rational self-interest is one way to truly motivate people. (Does anyone remember the episode of “Friends” where Phoebe tries to find a selfless good deed? She lets a bee sting her only to find out that bees die when they sting.)
    I love to travel and have made extensive efforts to be a greener travel. Why have I done this? It’s almost always cheaper, it’s exciting, and it means I get to experience the localness of the destination more.

    Like

  28. I just wanted to say well said, Raina – there are a lot of things we can do in life that don’t hurt, and likely help. It’s all about be selfless as much as possible. Hugs all! ~Marcie

    Like

  29. @ Davewin:

    “I’ve found a great ROI has been to move 2 miles away from my office and bike to work. Daily (additional) exercise, virtually guaranteed travel time (one time got a flat, jogged home in 15 minutes)…”

    What happened to the bike!? Am I right to envisage a bit of a ‘doh!’ moment when you got home? ;)

    Like

  30. Hey Tim. I saw that you are hanging out in Copenhagen right now, that’s where I’m at. There is a MMA show on Saturday that you might want to check out if you are still here by then. If you are leaving sooner than that you could always outsource the task of paying for beer and I’ll buy.

    Send me a email if you’re up for it. I have a place right in the center of town.

    //Max

    Like

  31. Thanks, Marcie!

    I wouldn’t quite say selfless, though. Just pragmatic — or as Tim has put it “rational” — self-interest. Seeing through the illusions to the elemental heart of the matter.

    I don’t think it’s right to use empirical doubt as a behavioral justification. They might co-exist, but they should be compartmentalized.

    For instance, maybe I have a crush on a car, or a man. If I justify my behavior by telling myself — “but I don’t know if global warming really exists…” and just go out and buy the car then in a subtle way I’m taking advantage of my own doubt and will likely never feel quite at peace about it. Likewise with the guy example. If I tell myself “but I don’t know how he feels…” and therefore take no action on the matter then I’m not quite being honest with myself and I will likely pay for it in the end.

    Instead I should just acknowledge the empirical doubt on the one hand, and on the other admit that “d*mn, I just really want _________”. But one is not justification for the other. The doubt and the desire are two separate issues.

    So in that sense, it’s actually about being selfish. It’s just the scenic route.

    Like

  32. Jaq: Marcie’s post sums up the scientific opinion quite succinctly. A few other things: There is almost nothing in science that is 100% certain. Einstein’s law of relativity superceded Newton’s laws of physics, but the latest news is now saying that trajectory orbits of satellites are going only slightly faster than they should be, but enough that scientists are now reconsidering Einstein’s physics notes. Does that mean that now the physics community should just quit and go do something ‘more certain’ with their lives? How many things are really certain?

    More importantly, and in complete theme with 4HWW, is it more important for me to do something as sterilize the bottom of my sneakers after walking around outside, which I can quite certainly say they’re clean if I use an alcohol solution… OR should I do something that is NOT as certain such as employ a ‘green’ lifestyle, but may save the future of the planet at relatively little cost (per person)? You have to keep the big picture in focus, just as 4HWW would advise.

    In regards to government/factions making money off of a ‘green’ lifestyle, that has no bearing and serves as no proof. ‘If A then B’ (i.e., If it’s financially and greed driven, then it shows in terms of money profits) does NOT equate to ‘If not A then not B’ (i.e., If it’s not financially and greed driven, then it will not show in terms of money profits). This is basic logic that somehow repeatedly surfaces in Internet discussions, and it also happens to be one of the main points of Tim’s blog article: You can still be green and make money in the process, as they’re independent factors!!

    Like

  33. @Jaq Nice response!

    We may be on the same page in certain respects but I do think that people have an effect large or small on the environment, can we say rain forest deforestation! I have not seen Inconvenient Truth but I do watch enough Discovery channel to feel for the Polar Bears who are losing much of their ice and lives due to melt. We all know, dare I say it, governments, news media and the like are corrupt including our own and unless people can profit from something be it;
    Time: Thanks Tim giving us back the idea that time is a commodity.
    Must thank our fearless leader! LOL
    or Money: Can someone say BP has already backpedaled and aren’t moving forward with green plans due to Oil greed.
    Many will not change unless guided by a guru or fewer still by their own inner compass.

    We have seen electricity become profitable. Electrons which are around every atom are free in my body until Midnight Saturday then I will charge for services. The solar power that lets me tan is free at least for now. Who would have expected bottled water that we pay for when it comes free from the tap! Insane but true! Lemmings are we?

    Carbon footprint or effect we have on the people, places, animals and things is a name we can debate on forever. I just know Jaq, you have effected me and I am grateful LOL *Tear*

    Hugs,
    Jen

    Like

  34. I think Jaq is listening to too much Rush Limbaugh, haha.
    Global Warming and the Environment are ethical issues.

    Great post & great cause

    Thanks Tim

    Like

  35. Just an observation:

    Tim wrote a post about profiting from reducing waste and consumption.

    Almost everybody wrote a comment about saving the earth and whether global warming is real.

    …perhaps the most productive thing to do is return to the original topic and profit from the “green” activities that you believe in.

    Additionally, think of Jaq’s comment on the political agenda of the large corporations’ green movement. How effective will their efforts be if progress takes a back seat to an ulterior primary agenda? What then happens to the profitability of your investing in them? My opinion is you have to invest in/with the efforts of small, private companies whose true agenda is transparent:

    http://jeffnabers.com/2008/04/06/green-from-green/

    Thanks, Tim, for sparking the ideas. It inspired me to elaborate on the topic on my blog as well.

    Like

  36. @Jeff – Good to see someone getting back on track..

    @Jaq – Even if global warming does not exist (though most world scientists agree regardless of their source of funding), does it mean that we should indulge without concern for future generations or even the latter parts of our own lives?

    There is limited supply of oil on earth that the Hummer you mentioned burns unnecessarily. There are dangers with certain toxins being released in the air be it with climate or even just our own health. We know the fumes that come from a car are counter to what we should be inhaling.

    And above all, Tim’s point (and thanks to Jeff for getting back on track) is that going for a green initiative can be profitable and allow you to sustain a lifestyle less dependent on paychecks to pay unnecessary expenses. Tim only is suggesting that we can use our rational self interest (human nature) and produce good side effects for everyone else while benefiting ourself.

    Like

  37. @Warren

    You write;

    “Even if global warming does not exist (though most world scientists agree regardless of their source of funding), does it mean that we should indulge without concern for future generations or even the latter parts of our own lives?”

    -I have not said that we should indulge. Those are your words. My point is that if we as a society agree that lessening the negative impact of human behavior on our environment is good, (What individual does not want cleaner water, air, and healthier food?) then we should strive to do it within the context of an everyday reality. Those of you who think I have been disagreeing with Tim’s point (or think that I have been off point) have not been reading my posts thoroughly. I simply disagreed with his use of the term “Carbon Footprint” with all of its political implications and baggage. Getting people to change their behaviors is much easier through inspiration instead of spreading fear or shaking your finger at them. (Not implying that Tim did this by the way.)

    Warren, you also wrote;

    “There are dangers with certain toxins being released in the air be it with climate or even just our own health. We know the fumes that come from a car are counter to what we should be inhaling.”

    -Of course inhaling fumes from cars is bad. (Next time, try not standing directly behind the exhaust pipes. :) )

    But please also consider gas burning machines have improved our lives to no end. Trucks deliver food, goods, medical supplies. Firetrucks put out fires, ambulances take sick people to hospitals, planes take people around the world which allows them to experience other cultures and learn from them, etc. We have all benefitted from the use of fossil fuels and will continue to do so for the foreseable future. There is a balance to everything. Everyday we make decisions that impact the environment and the people around us and we are improving all the time.

    Like

  38. I would have to agree with Jaq.

    The politics around the “green” debate certainly are overwhelming in the name fear and guilt at times. I find many “green” ideas seem to miss the point. I’ll give you an example. I work in the construction/architecture industry. There are parties from all sides constantly emotionally charged up about some latest and greatest green design. An industry standard system for architects is LEED. It is a point based system. An architect will get XX numbers of points for specifying solar panels, or low VOC paints, reclaimed lumber etc.. If he /she gets enough points, the design is certified LEED SILVER, GOLD or PLATINUM. The funny thing, is that politics often jump in at this point. Everybody seems to want the prestige of being part of a LEED project, owners, cities, county govornments, architects, contractors, etc… On one project, a special drip irrigation system was installed giving the project their last LEED point. A Year after the project was built, the irrigation system was ripped out and replaced with a standard sprinkler system, because the owner didn’t like the performance of the drip. On another project, a special low-VOC paint was used on the door frames. Because of the low durability of the paint, it scraped off easily and was was painted over by the maintenance staff within months with standard oil paint. On another project, reclaimed timber was used on a large deck. It had to be treated by multiple chemical processes and trucked around 1500 miles. But hey, the LEED certificate was on the wall now, so who cares! Most of these buildings have 35-50 year design lives and will soon become one the largest landfill contributers, construction waste.

    I know we shouldn’t throw out the baby with the bath water, but many of these feel-good cures for our social guilt may be missing the point entirely. I don’t know what the answer is, but perhaps it starts with defining what the true problems and needs are. Hey at least we don’t have the sludge pits and raw sewage in rivers that we did in the 50’s.

    Like

  39. Pardon for this question that’s not exactly about this post but it IS about this blog — does anyone know which WordPress plugin Tim uses for the tabbed “Most Popular” widget on the right-hand-side of this blog? I like it a lot because it’s very easy and convenient to navigate. Thanks for any help in advance. :)

    ###

    Hi Torley,

    This was a custom-made javascript feature and is not a plug-in, I’m afraid. Sorry!

    Tim

    Like

  40. It sounds like we can all agree that there are things we can do as individuals to directly decrease wasteful consumption and/or inefficiency.

    Jaq, I’d like to point out that that the benefit of trucks delivering goods, food, and medical supplies isn’t unique to gas burning machines. It is unique to automobiles, but when automobiles were first produced there were just as many electric cars on the road as gasoline cars. The profitability of oil overpowered a historical preference for the clean, quiet electric car.

    A thorough look into history should show you that some of the greatest innovation is created by small people and companies. History will also show these most fantastic technological advances being bought out by large industry (everyone has a price, right?) and set on the back shelf due to the superior profitability of inefficiency. This is the reason why I disagree with Bach’s portrayal of these rosy SRI index funds.

    Like

  41. The biggest problem that I see, and I believe is already happening with environmental issues, is that once there’s enough money and political influence invested in a scientific theory, the science part of it stops. Just look at the overuse of statin drugs, the lipid hypothesis of heart disease as a whole, the poor efficacy of corn for both human and animal food as well as ethanol, and quite a few other issues.

    Like

  42. I’m just sayin’….

    “Los Angeles considers global warming tax

    April 7, 2008 – 9:58AM
    The Orange County Register
    To fight global warming, a bill in Sacramento would enable Los Angeles County transit officials to increase taxes on motorists. It’s a bad idea that may foreshadow even worse to come.

    Billed as a “climate change mitigation and adaptation fee,” the measure would cost motorists either an additional 3 percent motor fuel tax, or up to a $90 annual flat fee, based on vehicle emissions. The new charges would be on top of taxes already paid at the pump. Either option requires a majority approval by a vote of the people.”

    (Story continues…)

    Like

  43. Hi Tim,

    I wrote to you before.. auf Deutsch, and you wrote back in English..

    I wanted to give you a heads up: Your old website appears to be visually scrambled: (lifestyleentrepreneurship.com) You might want to update it.

    -Amy Brevard in Seattle, WA

    ###

    Hi Amy,

    Thx for the heads up!

    I almost always write in English to native English speakers. I just strikes me as kinda strange otherwise. The same is true of speaking, unless I’m trying to have a private conversation in a crowded room or something.

    Thanks for the tip on the old site, but I can’t seem to get the “scrambled” error to duplicate. Will check it out, and thanks again for the heads up!

    Tim

    Like

  44. Jaq: NYC is on the verge of passing a bill to surcharge motorists going into NYC during certain hours. I drive a car and I’m STILL for this bill to go through.

    As far as making people change through inspiration, I don’t think that has worked. Being ‘green’ has been proposed since the early 90s, but people would not listen because of the exact reasons you listed in your prior posts. I think you may be giving people more credit than they deserve, as inspiration works with a certain percentage of people… the rest won’t listen until ‘Mt. Saint Helens blows up’ (and even then, you can read about the volcanist David A. Johnston who died with the explosion). Unfortunately, this time if ‘Mt. Saint Helens blows up,’ we’ve got no where to run.

    Like

  45. I heard about your website on TV and I am interested in earning some extra income, however in reading the blogs it seems like your site is mostly for employers who want to send there projects to other countries. Please let me know if there is work for people in the states that want to earn extra income.

    Thanks for your response.
    Phyllis

    Like

  46. “Just learned that normal table pepper sprinkled on candle flame creates sparks. How cool is that? Don’t burn down your house.”

    I never knew that. That’s awesome. How did you find that out Tim?

    -Andrew

    Like

  47. The joy I get from this thread is listening to the low grumble of creative minds practicing their art on an abstract problem.

    ADD causes a loneliness of spirit for itself. Tim’s example reminds us of things our society forgets. OK. First post. That’s out of the way.

    @Jaq: Isn’t a strip coal mine a carbon footprint? Don’t dismiss the words just because they were spoken by some political git to score points. They’re good words. Own them for your own use. Don’t let them be squandered.

    @Raina: Uncertainty is good. Keep doin’ what your doin’. It will be OK.

    Tim; Dude. Sit down with me over some beers sometime in the next two years. We can trade ‘adventure’ stories. Mine were before automation, which adds a certain patina to the telling…

    Best wishes,
    Wayne

    Like

  48. I can tell you how I found out about pepper on open flames…grilling when I was about 17 yrs old. Oregano does the same thing…discovered at 15 while working in an Italian restaurant.

    Whether I act in such a way that one might perceive it as “going green”, understand that the only reason I’d do so is based on money….does it save me money/time/etc.? If not, then I won’t do it. Separating the recycling? Nope, not when the city won’t accept 1/2 of the stuff that should be recycled (and PAYS someone to go inspect home recycling bins) and it needs to be rinsed, dried, etc. Not worth my time or effort.

    My gas-guzzling truck? Nope, even at these prices. I get a lot of utility from my pickup, more than any sedan can offer. I’ll keep it, thanks.

    I think you get the idea.

    The earth has been warming and cooling for eons. It will continue to warm and cool long after “Man has left the building.”

    What concerns me isn’t that people make the personal decision to “go green”, it’s the “I now have to force everyone else to do this too” mentality that will ultimately increase the interference by government into people’s lives. If you want to do all those things because, well, “it won’t hurt”, have at it.

    I remember news and magazine reports in the 1970s predicting the next Ice Age. Today, in Cheyenne, Wyoming, they reported 5 inches of snow, with 5 more expected tomorrow. On top of all the snow they got in the past 2 days. Yeah…let’s hear it for Global Warming.

    Arizona is allowing a Spanish company to build a $3 BILLION solar farm, which will cover 3 square miles. This company will then sell the power back to our state’s power company…at a rate to ensure they will get a nice ROI. Guess who pays for that increased electricity costs? Consumers.

    Like all attempts at controlling others, follow the money. It will lead you right back to Al Gore’s company that deals in “trading” carbon offsets.

    “Isn’t that what governments are for….to get in a man’s way?”
    –Nathan Fillion as Capt. Mal Reynolds in “Firefly”

    Like

  49. One more thing that I forgot….

    “The majority of the world’s scientists agree that global warming is real”…but do they also agree as to the cause? If so, where’s the empirical evidence?

    Remember, at one time the majority of the world community also thought the earth was flat and that the moon was made of cheese. And that slavery was OK because, well, Africans were sub-human.

    All of which have been disproven, and the latter being morally reprehensible, to boot. I’ll not be a slave to any Green Overlords.

    Like

  50. TimW: I’m curious, what WOULD be enough proof for you? Certainly, even though all scientists agree that Global Warming is real, you still state that you don’t even believe that even that much is true based on your Cheyenne, Wyoming ‘revelation’ (btw, Global Warming doesn’t mean less snow or less weather, it just means higher temperatures on Earth in general. Believe it or not, El Nino becomes more fierce from warmer waters).

    I must be missing something, because if global expert opinion isn’t enough for you, perhaps reading books (*cough* Four Hour Work Week *cough*) and any advice in general won’t do you too much good in life.

    Like

  51. If you are a business owner with many employees, you can make a huge difference by simply selecting your office location. If you can cut the average commute by 10 miles per employee each way you will be saving an average of a gallon of gas per work day per employee. That’s impactful.

    Plus… your colleagues will appreciate the shorter commute.

    Like

  52. @Jaq
    I just noticed the comments above that are directed at me.

    I don’t think we are disagreeing that much. It seems we are still approaching the topic from different vantage points – you from a policy standpoint, me from an individual standpoint.

    I like what you are saying about transparency and integrity in the prioritization of humanitarian efforts. However all of the issues you mentioned are equally rife with misinformation, conspiracy theorists and scientific uncertainty – not questioning their existence, perhaps, but how to allocate finite resources certainly. Yes, it is important to avoid a media frenzy and mass hysteria. But how is that done? By individuals developing opinions and taking concrete actions one by one.

    My previous comment about you getting involved with policy was not intended as an accusation nor flippantly condescending. It was intended as a complimentary acknowledgement that you seem to have sufficient interest, patience and follow-through to get results in that arena, and I wouldn’t want to see you waste it by adopting a victim mindset.

    The actions that I advocated do have tangible results, and are not merely “feel-good”. The limited expectations I place on my actions are simply this: I’m not trying to change THE world so much as I am trying to change MY world. I believe that in many ways, one is a prerequisite for the other. But that is not a tacit admission that my world is little more than vacillating emotional fluff. Far from it.

    If I live in the desert and decide to have a rock lawn rather than an artificially watered grass lawn, I am taking nothing away from anti-malaria campaigns.
    I am not making a huge political statement, nor endorsing any particular agenda. I will be saving myself money, and honoring the local habitat. There might be more far-reaching implications, there might not. Pragmatic. Done.

    All of these things get so complicated so quickly. I read books for enjoyment and to help wade through the complexity (I recommend the Food Revolution by John Robbins for on the intersection of water conservation, economics, the ethics of agriculture, and individual health). I pay very little attention to news media. My decisions as an individual are relatively simple. I do my best to keep them that way.

    Please report back to us, Jaq, if you get in the ear of a policy-maker.

    @Nate
    Very interesting commentary on LEED. Hopefully those problems are primarily growing pains that will work themselves out.

    @Wayne
    Comfort with uncertainty was a primary skill learned in art school. Knowing that the decision to paint a brushstroke ‘here’ or ‘there’ on an empty canvas didn’t really matter, but that the decision still had to be made and accepted anyway. It’s an interesting exercise in self-containment. Or futility. Depending on how you look at it!

    Click on my name to see some of my prints. They’re totally G-rated, but abstractly sexy. Enjoy!

    Like

  53. Hi Tim,

    Someone just turned us on to your 4Hr Workday book. I ordered it from Amazon but I didn’t read the reviews! I’ve always had success but this guy jipped us and AMAZON will refund us Monday if I don’t get it tomorrow. Ordered it 3/20 so have to wait it out. But our friend said you were an ARG. TANGO dancer so that really triggered my interest! We are too! We’ve been to BA 2x already, Italy 2x, Greece/Istanbul all for tango! Had my most exciting, envigorating, breathless tango dance in Istanbul. I want to learn what he did!! Some type of colgada/boleo combo but it was sooo powerful, my leg just FLEW around with NO TIME to think (which is good)…but the power scared me to death at first. His lead was so gentle yet created such force. That’s what I want to know how he did that! I would think he must’ve had to learn from Metin Yazir?? but who knows. It will be a quest so Alan can learn it. He and others have done some similar things but it is not quite the same.

    I missed dancing with Pablo Veron in Beijing by 2 weeks! WE went to visit their small Milonga with a friend from email. His girlfriend just happend to be in my small little town and she came over for dinner, then we had dinner with him later that week in BEIJING! He’s visited us back home several times. But this guy did something similar and right before he was going to teach us, he had to go back to China. Now he’s trotting around India and I’ll probably never see him again. He broke up also with the girl.

    I read your blog on tango and never heard of that rising star so put in my Favorites in YOUTUBE!

    Can’t wait to read your book! Tangamente, Debbie

    Like

  54. I wish that we humans could do more to reverse the natural process of climate change, however let’s stay green, as there is a lot we can do to make air quailty better, particularly in cities. 4×4 bad, little car good!

    Like

  55. Servus Tim,

    How do you know if I am a native English speaker? Perhaps I am Italian, or Chinese…
    ;)

    Und…Bitte sehr. Es freut mich dir zu helfen. I just happened to see it when I was researching which blogs you’ve been featured on.

    Amy Brevard

    Like

  56. If there’s a lesson to be learned here, it’s simple but powerful: assumptions and perceptions are only that. It’s logical to assume that changing your habits or choices to better serve the planet are to some extent going to deprive you of something or limit your ability to enjoy yourself. Yet what keeps being under-emphasized in discussions of climate change is that our responses do not have to be harmful. Going green can mean feeling better about yourself, but it can also mean tangible, practical benefits in reevaluating old habits and ways of business. You could have a chance right now to help the planet and yourself at the same time, if you look at the world as an opportunity, rather than assuming that change will be a net loss.

    Like

  57. Hello, Mr. Ferriss, We quite enjoyed your comments and explanations regarding the “Financially-Friendly” aspects of generally eco-friendly sustainable businesses and just how easy it really is to be both “green” and profitable. We concur with virtually every aspect of this site. Please contact us if you like so that we might share some thoughts. Rick Hewitt, Founder

    Like

  58. Investors in the telephone publishing industry are taking a beating. Sites like http://www.YellowPagesGoesGreen.org are allowing people to sign up to “opt out” from getting telephone books delivered to their homes. This is this first big push to make telephone companies stop the saturation market coverage that they have used for decades. The Internet and an organization like this will force them to go green and only deliver books to people that ask for them.

    Great site. Great info.

    Like

  59. Pingback: used fire trucks
  60. The New Alternatives Fund is NALFX not NJALFX.

    “Sacrifice 30 minutes of extra sleep on the weekend to deal with Zipcar vs. pull the car out of the garage?”

    What is taking 30 minutes? It takes me 5 minutes to pull up their website and reserve a car.

    Like

  61. As a counterpoint- Scott Adams just posted in his Dilbert.com blog (one of my favorites, along with this one) a call for “some entrepreneur [to] create a way for citizens to invest in clean energy sources without having to gamble in abstractions such as the stock market or venture funds. I would love to invest in, for example, a particular windmill, or a piece of a solar farm that is generating a particular amount of energy each day.”

    I was struck how similar this seems to the LitLiberation and FirstGiving.org experiments I was introduced to by this blog.

    What do you think- would a similar model work for green energy grassroots fundraising?

    If so, to what extent? Would people donate or set up fundraising drives for something more abstract, say, research towards better methods of storage/transfer of environment-dependent energy like solar and wind?

    You can check out Adams’s blog post here: http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/name_that_windmill

    Like

  62. Hi Tim,

    Someone just turned us on to your 4Hr Workday book. I ordered it from Amazon but I didn't read the reviews! I've always had success but this guy jipped us and AMAZON will refund us Monday if I don't get it tomorrow. Ordered it 3/20 so have to wait it out. But our friend said you were an ARG. TANGO dancer so that really triggered my interest! We are too! We've been to BA 2x already, Italy 2x, Greece/Istanbul all for tango! Had my most exciting, envigorating, breathless tango dance in Istanbul. I want to learn what he did!! Some type of colgada/boleo combo but it was sooo powerful, my leg just FLEW around with NO TIME to think (which is good)…but the power scared me to death at first. His lead was so gentle yet created such force. That's what I want to know how he did that! I would think he must've had to learn from Metin Yazir?? but who knows. It will be a quest so Alan can learn it. He and others have done some similar things but it is not quite the same.

    I missed dancing with Pablo Veron in Beijing by 2 weeks! WE went to visit their small Milonga with a friend from email. His girlfriend just happend to be in my small little town and she came over for dinner, then we had dinner with him later that week in BEIJING! He's visited us back home several times. But this guy did something similar and right before he was going to teach us, he had to go back to China. Now he's trotting around India and I'll probably never see him again. He broke up also with the girl.

    I read your blog on tango and never heard of that rising star so put in my Favorites in YOUTUBE!

    Can't wait to read your book! Tangamente, Debbie

    Like

  63. The thing about building green for less money is knowing the materials. If you know all of the really cool and innovative materials available for a green building project it becomes more of a game where you want to one up yourself and get greener and greener with each choice. It’s true ethics and money savings are usually not enough, with some people you just need to appeal to their competitive side.

    Like